99 : Sabbatical Series #2 : What I Hope to Get Out of Three Months Off Work - Day 1 : Adam Interviewed by Julia Li

Welcome to the Mindful Fire Podcast, on today's episode. I'm joined again by my friend Julia Li Who's a four time guest on the podcast. You can check out our previous conversations on episodes 54 56 and 59 of the podcast Today's conversation with Julia is different than our past conversations and that the tables are turned In the past, my conversations with Julia focused on how she was taking time off work, taking a sabbatical and pivoting from a career in tech at Google to a career in sustainability. In this episode, the tables are turned and Julia's asking me questions about a big change happening in my life. as I'm recording this, I'm on my first day of three months off of work, And in the episode I share more about how this three months off came about and what I'm planning for this time off. I hope you enjoyed this conversation between myself and Julia Lee, all about my upcoming three months off of work let's jump into today's episode. Julia, welcome back again to the Mindful Fire Podcast. It's great to have you back.

Thanks, Adam. It's great to see you again and I'm so excited to catch up today about what's new in your world.

first, congratulations. You are the guest that has been on the podcast the most at this point. I think this is your, Third interview and will be your fourth appearance on the podcast. So thank you so much for, sharing so much time and wisdom with the audience and myself.

Yeah. I am honored and flattered that you have invited me so many times, so I hope I deliver Adam,

so far so good. I learn so much every time we catch up. yeah, for the audience. Today's a little bit d. in the past I've been having conversations on the podcast with Julia about big changes in her life. In the first episode, 54, episode 54, Julia was sharing how she was thinking about making a big change in her life and ultimately planning on leaving Google and transitioning into the field of sustainability. The next episode happened six months after she left Google and took a three month sabbatical, and then spent three months finding a new job in the field of sustainability. that was episode 56. And then on episode 59, we covered off on how she's thinking about moving into her new job and all of the mindset shifts she had about money. tons of good stuff in all of those episodes. But as I said, today is a little bit different because now I'm the one taking some time off from work, and I thought, who better to talk to about this and to get advice from than my friend Julia, who just went through it, about a year ago now. But, just went through it herself and so I'm so excited to dive into that with you today, Julia.

Yeah. I am so excited for you too, Adam. And I think maybe we can start by having you tell me a little bit about what led to the position you're in now, because I know that you had always wanted to take some time off and then ended up getting a text from you about a week ago saying that you had gotten approval for that and you're really excited and, wanted to share some thoughts and perspectives on how to get the most out of it. maybe why don't you bring me up to speed as well as all of your listeners on, what status you're at right now.

Yeah, that's a good place to start. And as you mentioned, this is something that I've been thinking about and wanting to do for a very long time. Actually, going all the way back to the, this time 2019, so January, February, 2019, I was just coming off having a baby, and kind of getting my feet under me in that world. And I thought, I've been working for Google for my whole career and for, at that point, I guess it was like eight or nine years, and I was thinking, oh man, I need a break. and, I kind of put it out there in the universe that I wanted a break and I thought, okay, maybe I can take a sabbatical, maybe I can even, go with my family for a few weeks to Portugal. For some extended time to spend with family. They can meet my son, Carter, all of that. And while some of that did not happen, so I didn't get a sabbatical. it didn't happen during that time, but I did end up getting a three month rotation, work rotation in Portugal where I was able to go bring my whole family over there, my wife and my son. And we were able to live in Lisbon and I was able to work on some really cool projects with the Google team there, around helping startups and retailers. While that was a lot of fun and a great adventure for my family, it was not a sabbatical and it was not, really, it wasn't time off. It wasn't restful at all. because on top of working, I was also traveling every weekend. yeah. And my son had been to eight countries by his first birthday, so Wow. yeah. Not a rest, not a restful time. So that's all to say, this has been on my mind for a very long time. And honestly, I was kind of afraid to really own that's what I needed for the longest time. And, because I have it very good, like I, my life is filled with, abundance and privilege, everywhere I look. And so to think like, oh, like, I'm gonna go and ask my amazing boss for time off when he is already so generous and flexible with me, kind of felt a little bit weird. And so I just chickened out a bunch of times. But as 2021 dragged on and I, was kind of approaching two years of working full-time and more or less parenting full-time. I decided I need to take a break. I need to listen to what I need and actually ask for this break. And sometime like in October, November last year, I decided, okay, I'm gonna have this conversation. And I started talking about it with my boss, Paul, who you know and is amazing. And he, really kind of helped me think through what the options are. and then, a reorg happened, not surprisingly, and I was going to have a new boss and a new team. And so the thinking in, talking about this with my wife and then with my boss was really, okay. Maybe now's a good time, right? Maybe now's a good time to have this conversation, go into this new team and say, we've been discussing this for a while. This is something that's on Adam's mind and we need, that's gonna be in the near future, so let's just like take it as a. And that really helped give me the confidence to actually go and have that question, right? Because it's not me bringing it up out of the blue, it's, Hey Josh, I know you talked to Paul about this, or, I know Paul mentioned that Adam's been thinking about this and planning this. That made the conversation much easier to bring up. And basically I had that conversation last Thursday. we had, yeah, we had that conversation last Thursday. Yesterday, Friday was my last day at work. and so it happened very quickly. So not a lot of time to really think or plan exactly what I wanted to do or what I planned to do with this. And yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. Like it's happen. Like I'm, it's happening, like, and yeah, it's not really a sabbatical, per se. it's carrier's leave. so I am doing it because I don't really have childcare. And the good news is it's totally legitimate. I literally care for my son all the time, with my wife, of course, we care for him all the time, except for when he's in school for like three hours, three days a week. exactly full coverage. yeah. So that's where we're

at. Yeah. Wow. That easy, huh? Conversation last Thursday and here you are.

I guess so. I guess so. Yeah. it was one of those things where it was like, I was thinking, as I was talking about it with Paul and really thinking through how to make this, do this in a way that doesn't impact the team, right? I don't wanna just drop the ball, on the team, especially when we're in a new team. So I was thinking, look, I'll ramp up on the team in this new role. It's the same role, customer success manager, but I'll ramp up on the team and then train the new customer success manager that's joining, going to be joining the team. But then when I had the conversation, it was like, Hey, I know you haven't, we haven't even posted the job yet for this person. And there. I don't wanna take on a bunch of stuff that I'm gonna then take, get off of. And so it became clear to both of us, like sooner is better than later. He's like, if you're gonna do it, it's better that you do it now, so you can come back sooner. And it just worked out that way, but it seemed very weird to be like, Hey, going tomorrow, or whatever, Yeah.

Yeah. I am first of all really happy for you that you have such a supportive previous manager and new manager that they both, encouraged you to do this and were able to talk about, this break that you want to take openly with. I think it's like what a gift the universe gave you in this reorg and this new team and this natural breaking point that it sounds like gave you the push that you finally needed to ask for this time off. I think a common thread that I, am hearing in your story and also experienced myself and heard across a lot of people is some of that guilt and shame that we have around asking for this. I think there's a lot of self-limiting beliefs that we think in our mind on, in our mind on why we're not worthy of taking time off. that other people might judge us for taking time off, or really we're judging ourselves for taking time off. And it's also one of those comparative suffering things, right? It's like, oh, I have it so good. My life is so great. Who am I to ask for additional leave? you're nodding a lot Adam, 'em, it sounds like. Absolutely.

Yeah. No, especially that last part, right? Yeah. mean, it's a lot. I'm sure. The other stuff about, am I worthy of taking time off? like, do I deserve time off? All of that's wrapped up, but really it's like, I have it so good. Who am I to like ask for this, like when I have it so good. and then also part of me is like, honestly what's been on my mind since, before and really since I've gotten the approval to do it, is like, am I even gonna use this time wisely? like, I don't wanna waste this time. And that's really. I mentioned, or over text last night that like, I want to bring awareness to the expectations that I'm developing around this time because I feel that, like I don't wanna waste the time, right? But that's so ambiguous. There's no real clear expectations. And then also, like, I know that I just need to let go of those expectations anyways. And so there's a lot there. and yeah, it kind of comes back to who am I, why I have it so good. And, why do I deserve this? I don't know.

Yeah. you deserve it because your intuition is telling you that you need it, and that taking this time will result in some benefit down the line that you can't even see yet. You've been thinking about this for years and years, and so of course. It's, it's something that you really have to give yourself because if you never take it, you're always going to wonder like what if, getting into that point of feeling like you might waste that time. I can tell you that you will feel like that at points, and I think it's because it's brought on by the. The finiteness of the time, you know that there's an end date in mind. And so because you have that end date, it adds this certain level of anxiety. And I think one of the most helpful things to keep in mind is just really accepting that this is going to be just a short period instead of resisting that. Because I, I think when I got into the sabbatical, I will kind of flounder between wishing for this time to last forever and also like wondering, oh my gosh, am I wasting it? Like I need to rush into that next step. And so I think that's just a very natural. Place your mind is probably going to go. And really though, when I look back on it, and I think like we both know this from our mindfulness practice, is that the depth and quality of your experience isn't really going to be based on the actual quantity of time. It's going to be based on how present you are in each moment. And so while you're in your sabbatical, as you notice those thoughts come up, as you notice that anxiety come up, like the more present you can be with accepting that and acknowledging that those are going to be natural parts of your experience. and also accepting immunology that this is just going to be a short period of time and like however you spend it, I. You will have some kind of internal wisdom to know, like, am I spending it, in a quality present way right now in this moment? Or is there something I could be doing that will help me get more out of this?

Yeah, no, I think I really resonate with, just first and foremost acknowledging yes, it is a finite time, right? And that's not a bad thing, right? It's not gonna last forever as nothing lasts forever. And what a gift it is to have this time, right? Yeah. Even if it's finite, it's like, I think of it in meditation knowing that the thoughts are going to come is yeah, a relief. So maybe noticing or realizing that it is a finite time and that thoughts and feelings about, it being a short time or it running out or whatever are going to come and just kind of noticing them and getting curious with them rather than, being oblivious and letting them drive me or resisting them or anything like that. Just kind of bringing mindfulness. Yeah.

or even judging yourself for having them, because sometimes you feel like you're ruining the moment just by having those anxieties, like, oh, my sabbatical would be so much better if I wasn't so anxious. But, maybe if you expect it and prepare for it, then it's like, ah, yes, here's the anxiety that I knew was going to come up during the sabbatical, because, now I take away all of the demands of work and I have this little break I'm giving myself, and I'm putting so much pressure on myself to get the most out of it. Like recognizing that that's going to happen and so that when it does happen, you are more prepared to accept it and then move on from it. I think something else that I've realized as well, so as I mentioned, I t started my sabbatical February 1st, 2021. And so it's been essentially a full year since then, and I had the seven months sabbatical, and then I've been working for five months now. one thing I've realized is that the lessons from it, they're still un they're still revealing themselves to me. And so I think another thing for you to keep in mind that I wouldn't have known when I was going into it is that. you're not going to get everything you get out of your sabbatical just during those three months. I think you can look at it as almost like a retreat, like when you go on retreat for a, a three day weekend or something. You get a lot of great experiences out of that retreat, but really the learning comes from the integration after the fact. And so that mindset can perhaps also help take a little bit of that pressure off, where during the sabbatical you're having these new experiences. You're rewiring your nervous system, you're, trying to perceive your life and your habits in a new way. But really like knowing that you're going to go back to work afterwards. there's an opportunity for you after you go back to the normal schedule of working and parenting. that there will be lessons from your sabbatical that you will continue, that. How do I say this? Essentially, these lessons that you will continue practicing even after your sabbatical, and you'll come to deeper layers of understanding in those lessons even after the three months are over.

Not to put you on the spot or to put you on the spot. Do you have any example? Do you have any examples of how that ar happened for you? I can see it and if you don't it's fine. I'm putting you on the spot here. Yeah.

I, I think they're kind of continuations of themes that we've talked on in the past, and so happy to elaborate on those. Like, one of the biggest ones was around rest, right? And a big eye-opening moment for me when I first took time off and started seeing a naturopath and, going to acupuncture and all of that, was realizing how much guilt I held around resting and my inability to slow down. And I had really been in this mentality of work hard, play hard for years and years. And, when I went on my sabbatical, as a result of like finally slowing down, I think a lot of. responses in my body showed up and I was dealing with some health things that I think only I had the space to deal with because I had finally taken that time to slow down. And so I, was developing a lot of, just a different framework around how I perceive rest. And now that I've gone back into working full-time, I'm working, quite a lot. I work from home and I do have a lot of autonomy over my schedule, but, I do sometimes have very long days, but I feel like I'm better at balancing the working, the playing and the rest, and honoring my need for rest instead of feeling like, for example in the past it's like, oh my gosh, I'm just going to power through my afternoon. Like it's 3:00 PM I'm feeling tired, but let me just get through these things. And now it's really. If I need a break, I take a break and I don't judge myself for it. I block off time for meals. I refuse to eat in front of my computer anymore. That's like a big life change that I've made. and I still notice some things of it. Like sometimes if I'm blocking off an hour for lunch, I feel guilty about taking an hour for lunch. Like, how dumb is that? I think like, oh no, I should only take 30 minutes. Like, people are going to judge me. No one's going to judge me for taking an hour for lunch. Like, that is my break in the middle of the day. And I'm still practicing these things, but I think I'm learning how to be more gentle with myself around these more supportive behaviors to my overall health and wellbeing instead of just steamrolling over them like I might have done in the

past. And yeah. Thank you for sharing that. That's a great example. And I, I think this piece of advice as well that the lessons that. Will come from the time off are not limited to the time off. They will continue and they won't all happen during the time off. And so That takes a little bit pressure off of like, I need to like find myself, I need to find myself during this time off. And it, which is again, like a completely ambiguous goal, right? Like, it's like finding yourself or getting to know yourself is a lifelong practice. Yeah. And so putting like some time limit on it doesn't make any sense, but I, my tendency is very much to do that. Yeah. It's very much to set a goal that is just completely unattainable and then to feel terrible when I obviously fail at it,

one other thing I've realized though around this, finding yourself and improving yourself and using like some tool such as a retreat or a sabbatical or whatever it is to improve yourself is that you're improving yourself all along the way, but. Once you get to that point you wanted to get to. It then becomes your new baseline. And so you forget how far you've come. Like you think, oh, this is me now and this is who I've always been. And sometimes it's like, no, like you actually didn't have these healthy habits before. You didn't have this love for yourself. And you actually were a lot more anxious and stressed out before. And so I think one practice that I used during my sabbatical that could be helpful to keep in mind too, is I found journaling really helpful because when I go back and I read some of those entries, it really reminds me of how far I've come and some of those changes that have taken place because it's very easy to forget those changes after the fact.

so yeah. Absolutely. Now that's great advice. And, kind of related to that is, Just that, how important it is to take in the good and to realize how far you've come, like to actually take the time and pay attention to those facts. If to your point, like looking back thinking, wow, like I've come so far, right in the last ex, years or whatever, and also just kind of every time we get to where we think we wanna be Then we realize that, or then it's like, oh, now there's another goal. if we continue trying to improve ourselves, like it will never end. so one of the things that I'm really trying to do with this time off is to really take stock of the fact that I've realized recently, which is everything I say I want or need to be happy, I already have. And that has come up so many times recently since the, as I was reflecting on last year and looking ahead to this year, just everything, right? Like I wanted a sabbatical, right? I put it out there. I wanted a sabbatical. Now I have it right? Yeah. I have the sabbatical. It's better than I even expected it to be, right? It's a fully paid, right? Yeah. It's not a sabbatical, but it's time off from work that's fully paid, and that's incredible. And I'm so grateful for that opportunity. But, It's like, don't jump. I can't just jump to the next, oh, now it's this thing I have to have, And that's the urge that's like, oh, it's like maybe do I need to get a new job? Or, like I'm not even, I'm not even looking at that. Like I don't, no. one, I said to my boss like, look, I'm back. I've coming back like, I promise. although I don't know, Anyway, so you know, all the things like, my desire to want to teach mindfulness and get paid for it, I do that, my desire to make workshops and deliver them to teams and get paid for it, I do that, right? It's just like, maybe it doesn't look exactly how I think it should look, but if I change how I pay attention to it, I have it. Even the skate park cita,

Oh my gosh. I was going to ask you about that. Okay. We need to hold a few minutes at the end to talk about this, but

yes, the long and short of it is I already have it. there's no skate park yet, but yeah, there is the cita, right? I envision this in my mind. I, have drawings that are like exactly what I envision building my, designing and building my own house has always been a dream of mine. And so then I, you. I have this dream of having this casita with this roof a certain way and this, windows and rooms and deck outside. It's like, and then I like realize I have it. I'm literally sitting in that room right now and not right this second, but most of the time when I'm just hanging out by myself or working on the podcast, like I'm in my sunroom, which is the casita. It is exactly what I envision. It's better than I envision. It doesn't have a skate park, but it does. so it's like, this is all to say that I have realized that everything I say I want, if I change how I pay attention, I can either, I already, in most cases I already have it. And in if I don't, I can very easily. And then, so this is all to say that I want to approach my life, but especially this time off from a place of sufficiency and enough, right? Because that I've always been approaching things from a place of scarcity. I need to get this so that I can be happy. And now that I realize I have everything I say, I need to be happy, can I show up from a place of, all right, I already, I'm enough, as you've put, in, in our previous conversations, like, I'm worthy and I'm good enough, and can I act from that place? Can I approach this time off from that place? so that's kind of how I'm thinking about it. But it's easier said than done when you've been doing this for 34 years. you've op if I've operated this way for 34 years, Changing it is not so easily done.

No, of course not. changing anything about yourself is not that easy. But when you said that, when you said that everything you previously thought you needed to be happy, you now have, I just felt like that was such a powerful statement. Like, I felt like my heart was swelling for you because what a beautiful experience to be in. And I think you're really hitting the nail on the head in terms of, I wanted to get into what you wanna get out of the sabbatical. It sounds like maybe a big part of it is practicing a mindset of gratitude and acting from that place, where it's so easy to fall into the continual trap of always wanting more. When you are always wanting more, it becomes a mental habit and for you to realize that you have everything you wanted, that you have enough, I think is the first step in maybe just switching the track of where your mental narrative tends to go. It's just recognizing that there's another option and how magical it's going to be when you take this other route and you look around you and you just sit from this place of like, wow, like my life is so full and so rich, and look at everything that I have created for myself just by virtue of my thoughts and my imagination and like, if I can achieve all of this, what else can I achieve? But like really from that place of like just fully honoring yourself and how much you've been able to create for your life to experience this joy and this abundance.

Yeah. No, I think that's a really good, insight. yeah, that could be one of the primary practices and that I do, mental practices of, making time to do a gratitude journal or practice just feeling gratitude there's this book that I'm, I've been, that I heard the author at, I think it was Wisdom 2.0, like on virtual in 2020 or whatever. And it was a book called Wake Up, grateful. And it was all about this concept of gratefulness rather than gratitude. not, instead of What's the difference? Yeah. Haven't heard, I haven't heard this before. Yeah. It was really interesting because it wasn't, instead of gratitude, but it was like in addition to gratitude. And so the, the difference really is you feel gratitude when something good happens to you, right? Mm-hmm. Like if it's conditional, you need something good to happen, to feel grateful or gratitude, but gratefulness, she argues is more of just like, In appreciation for being alive. It's like a fun, a fundamental way you can approach life where it's like, regardless of everything, like circumstances, there are things to be grateful for. And if I pay attention to them, I can change how I show up in my life. Yeah. More or less, honestly, I haven't read the whole book. I've listened to the beginning a few times. It's available for free on hoopla. Okay. which is a, like a audible for free. Yeah. and yeah, so I that's, but getting back to what you said, I think it's really powerful to, practice that. it's, yeah. It's not that hard to do and it might really take that insight that I've had and. Make it my default or make it more likely, more accessible for me on a regular basis by practicing it and allowing the neural pathways around it to strengthen.

Do you Have a gratitude

journal? not. Not one that, not really. I have, oh, a thousand journals.

I have literally this one on my bookshelf. it's by this group called KZ Giza. And they do funny little YouTube videos and it's great animations and they just explain interesting concepts and they have a little video explaining gratitude. And then they launched this gratitude journal, and my partner got it for me, like, let's see, when was the first entry here? Back in January, 2020. So it must have been Christmas 2019. And I honestly am only like a quarter of the way through it. so I don't use it every day. But it's funny because there's so much science that's been like, so much research that's been done on gratitude and like how it works and like we know this right? like whether you act on it is a different. But I did find when I was writing in this journal, like on a pretty regular basis, I think the first time I did it for more than three or four days in a row, I was like, wow, like this shit works. Like I actually am a lot happier, I'm walking through my life like, just so excited by everything in it. And it was such a little like, light bulb moment for me. It's like all the stuff that we know works, but like actually putting into a practice is just when you actually do it, you're like, oh, yes, it does work. Like there, yeah, there's a difference between, cognitively knowing it and then like actually experiencing it.

Absolutely. Yeah. That, there are some things that I am on the experiencing portion of, but there's a lot of things that I know, like the gratefulness book and the gratitude journal and Yeah. Even exercise, like I'm, yeah. Still trying to make that happen a little bit more. but yeah, no, it's a good, it's a good piece of advice and maybe, Taking, spending the money and getting myself a nice gratitude journal, G might give me the, actually a reason to like do it, I literally am like surrounded by journals. Like

you could, the prompts are super simple for this, which I like. So there's only two every day, like it's what are you grateful for today and what are you grateful for in your life? And yes. Yeah. I guess they're kind of combining the gratitude and the grateful concepts you're talking about. Yeah. you don't need to go if you want to. It can be a good accountability metric for yourself.

to our last doing it. Yeah. It is honestly to our last conversation, like me not wanting to spend money on anything and sometimes it's nice to, treat myself to certain nice things. I bought myself something

recently. You're right Adam. I should be encouraging your, you Yes. Treating yourself like you

brought this up. Yeah, it's true. It's true. I bought myself something the other day that is, They're called snow feet. I think May maybe we've talked about it on a podcast before, but No, I haven't heard of those. It's basically these, they were like, roller blades, but for snow. And these are basically, yeah, these are like basically a cheaper version that I found recently. But like, you basically just strap them in, you strap your boots into them, like snowboard boots. Okay. Like you can use snowboard boots, but you can also just use hiking boots. And then they're like skis on the bottom of your feet, but they're like pretty short. Oh my God. I don't know. I saw 'em on Instagram and then I was like, all right, I'm gonna get these. That's amazing. Because we had so much snow around. I haven't gotten them yet. They're on the way from, they're on the way from Czech Republic. Okay. So they'll be here in a while.

I am expecting a photo or even better a video. Once he's coming

You'll get one. Yeah, you'll get one. They're, it's gonna be ridiculous. But I had so much snow in the backyard, I was like, you know what? Like, it's time. It's time. Yeah. Yeah.

love seeing you embrace your inner child in that way, oh, I

certainly do. That's fantastic. So let's talk, let's get into the concept of rest a little bit more, cuz I know that's an area that you really practiced and was an area, a growth area for you. Something that. you admit, you admitted that you didn't really know how to do. And when you'd said that on the podcast, I really resonated with that. And I was like, man, I don't even, I don't even know how to rest. I'm constantly just doing stuff. And then even when I don't do stuff, like last night I, maybe I had a little bit, and I just, like, I could just sit there and just like think crazy shit all night. And then, but then when I wake up, I'm like, I just, I was wasting my time. It's like, no, it's okay to just chill and rest. really this concept of rest is something that I'm, that I want to be a foundational element to the time off, I wanna get your thoughts generally on how I can approach that, because part of me is like, do I just make it, I just rest for the first month and I, I set aside the podcast, I set aside maybe even the inner MBA work that I need to do and any sort of productive work. do I just set that aside or is there a balance? And then also related to that is like, what counts as rest and what's not rest, Because we talked about meditating can sometimes feel restful, but also can sometimes feel like a chore. Depending on how you look at it. Same thing with reading, same thing with exercise. so yeah, I'm kind of struggling with that. Yeah,

I think I'd wanna ask you why you feel like you need to develop your rest muscle. what you hope to get out of it, or is it another checkbox, right? So let's make sure it's not that and really kind of figure out where you're coming from.

Yeah, good question. I honestly, I think it, it doesn't come naturally to me to just do nothing and be okay with doing nothing or do something fun and joyful because it feels good. so I, I feel like I'm constantly trying to do something and trying to get somewhere and do, get something right to get, even like meditating sometimes, go to retreat and stuff. It's like, I am doing this so I can get some sort of feeling, some sort of experience. And I, I kind of wanna practice cultivating rest one to kind of counterbalance that, but also to just create some space in my life, To allow myself just to, my nervous system to relax and my, yeah. To like, really just to relax, to like, feel like I have some space in my life where it's like I don't have anything I need to do. Like, I always feel like I have something to do. And the problem is even if I just take away the working, like working for Google that's good. But like, there's so many other things that I have going on that I'm constantly doing and working towards. And I feel like if I don't really make a concerted, e concerted effort to rest and practice that, then I'm going to just use this time to tr more with more striving.

Yeah, I wanna dive more into like what you want to feel when you are in that state of relaxation, because one thing I can imagine is even if you take away all of the tasks, you take away the working at Google, you take away the podcast, you take away the inner M B A work. you're obviously still caring for Carter, but without really getting clear on how you want to feel when you're in this state of rest, and like what, what allowing that space will open up for you. I think a trap that you might fall into is then just creating other things to do. Like, oh, I have to make lunch for Carter. I have to take him to school. I have to go bread and errands. I have to go do all this other stuff. And I say this because I do that as well. and so it's really important on getting clear of like what kind of, experience in the moment are you trying to generate for yourself. By way of resting, you said a feeling of relaxation, like what else is

there? You

said relaxed, like, do you want to feel at ease? Do you want to feel peaceful? Do you want to feel fulfilled? Like what is that?

Yeah, I think I, I want to feel ease. I want to feel, I want to feel ease, and I want to feel unrushed. Unhurried, connected. curious. those are really the feelings, right? So like, just like, yeah. Un unrushed, unhurried connected to myself, connected to Carter, Because a lot of times when I'm with Carter. I'm distracted, right? I'm thinking, oh, I have 10 minutes until my next meeting, and now you really gotta hurry up. Otherwise I'm gonna be late and I'm gonna blah, blah, blah. Or it's bath time, we gotta get you down. So I can then, have a little bit of time by myself, and so really un unhurried and just like, almost with no agenda, like nothing that I need to do. Like I wanna, one thing that I've been trying to do for a while is to follow my own curiosity. Ooh. Yeah. And, And that's been good. And a lot of that leads me to things on the podcast, right? Like, the 30 reels of you that you probably have seen on Instagram that you're like, what the hell is this guy doing? Why is he posting videos of me on Instagram?

I support your endorsements.

Yeah. you'll be happy to know that you are the most successful reel that I have so far. So the first one I posted was like, at like 7,000 views within like 10 minutes, Wow. They're all happening on the other side of the world because I am doing it in the middle of the night. But, it's pretty funny. Like, but yeah, like, It Instagram really blasts those things out there. And so like, yeah, like yours, like there's like 10,000 views, 10,000, 5,000, like, and I got a bunch of followers. So they like you. Amazing. They like you great. They, whoever they're, I dunno who they're, but like, yeah. So I've been following my curiosity, but that leads me back a lot to like, okay, doing things for the podcast and that's fine. Because I like it and it's fun, but it's still like, productive. And I want to do some of that during the time off, but maybe there's a period of time where it's like I just. Have nothing on the agenda. I don't have anything that I need to do. And if I wanna do, maybe like, I don't know, that's where I ba like, it's like, do I draw a hard line or do I say, okay, if I wanna do something, then I follow my curiosity and I do it. I don't know. I'm struggling with

that. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, again, similar to mindfulness, there's two ways of practicing what you want to achieve, which is in the structured way and also the unstructured way in the integrated way, I guess we call it. so what I could imagine, in a structured way is you've listed some of these things. You want to feel like unhurried or connected. And I could imagine you, let's say, setting aside a day, at least one day in a week where you say, okay, I'm putting nothing on my calendar today. My goal today is just to feel really connected and, As you move throughout that day, checking in with yourself like, am I feeling connected to the present moment? Am I feeling connected to my son? Whatever I end up doing that day, maybe it's like I just, take him to the park. Like, am I feeling connected to this community that I live in? And like really leaning into that. and like kind of exploring these different themes like setting aside a day where you're not scheduling anything. And then as you start inevitably just doing things during the day or whatever it is, the day brings, seeing if you can bring in that feeling of being unhurried, like, oh, maybe today I have no plans, but I do have to take Carter to school. Like, how can I feel really unhurried in having to still do this thing? Because the reality is that you want to practice these things in a way where you're going to be able to bring them into your normal life afterwards because your life is not going to be unscheduled days forever. But I think what you might get out of it, first of all is like, let's say, six months from now you're back at work, and then you have a weekend and maybe you have a Sunday and there's not really much on the calendar. And instead of defaulting to, oh my God, let me put five things on my calendar. Then you remember like, oh, when I had, these free days and I just moved through the day with a sense of un hurriedness. Like maybe I can bring back this sensation now, in that day. I think that's maybe kind of a structured way I'm getting at it. And then an unstructured integrated way is just to see how you can bring this sense of ease and un hurriedness, into. Like whatever it is you are doing for that day, your agenda for that day. I guess I touched on that a little bit. but like, to give you an example, cuz I don't know if this is clear, to give you an example, when I was thinking about rest, something that feels really restful for me now is cooking and that's still an activity, right? But I think the way that I approach it is different where this is why I set aside an hour for lunch. Like I really want to be making my lunch in an unhurried way, really enjoying the process. it's still restful for my mind because I'm not, thinking through frameworks and processes and like to-do lists for work. But I'm really just in the moment and I'm letting myself be really creative and. It's, I think like my definition of rest has started to take on different meanings as I've gone from sabbatical, no agenda, whatever it is, back into sort of a rather busy life. And it's like finding these little moments that feel restful, even if they're not actually sitting on the couch and doing nothing and like, that big rest, cuz that can also feel stressful, right? So I think that's why this feeling, this, this like sensation, this mindset you're trying to get into is the most important part. And then seeing how you can bring that into different aspects of your life.

Yeah, I think that makes a ton of sense. Like having, yeah, I really like that. Having the feeling tone or the how I want to feel kind of top of mind and then that allows me to check in. It's like, am I feeling that? Did I feel that today? I think journaling. I want to do journaling in this, but also not like in a chore like way, like, I think that's cause I don't like feeling like I have to do things. Like I hate people telling me what to do and I hate, I would also say let joy myself

sensitive. Yeah. Let joy lead the way. I think maybe that's something you can really focus on your sabbatical is instead of letting to-do lists or expectations of yourself or, other responsibilities lead the way, like when you have those free days, you can really just focus on like, what do I want to do today? What's going to make me feel happy? What's going to make me, what can I do that feels unhurried and joyful? And that's something that you could practice as well. I'll say another thing around rest, I think my intention going into rest is that I realized I held a lot of judgment and shame around this. I think we talked about this in the first episode where if I sat down, I would feel really guilty about not constantly doing stuff. And so my structured way of doing it is I force myself to sit on the couch for a week and do nothing but watch TV and I didn't do that like all day, but I did do a lot more of that than I normally would. And when those thoughts of judgment came up, it was like, no, I am practicing being nonjudgmental to myself, be like, while I'm just sitting here doing nothing. And I, that's, I think the practice of rest can look different for different people depending on what you're trying to achieve through

that. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it'd be helpful for me to think through, like, what do I consider rest? When do I feel like I'm getting rest? Like taking a nap, getting a massage. Yeah. going for a walk. Like reading. Like where I don't have to read. Like I'm not reading because I have a paper due. I'm reading because I want to. Yeah. Like I was listening to our conversation earlier. Our about rest, actually I didn't get to the rest part, but we were just getting into it when I was doing the dishes earlier and I. Remembered I mentioned you said something about the universe conspiring to in your favor, when you create the space for yourself. And that reminded me of the Alchemist. And so now I want to reread The Alchemist for like the sixth time because at different points in my life, it's been really useful. Like when my son was born and then when I moved to New Jersey, like I read it again and now I'm in this different period. But so that would feel restful reading a book that I've already read and just like can take at my own pace and. Is unhurried and unrushed would feel nice, but

yeah. yeah. another thing I thought of that's really important for resting is boundaries. And I think this is really around practicing your own boundaries. And what sparked this was when you said you hate when people expect things of you. one boundary that I kind of learned is around saying no to people. And I think it's so cliche, but I used to be such a yes person. Like I was yes to every social event, I was just always out, always doing stuff, always with people. And I've really leaned into my introverted side in the past year or two and just finding a lot of enjoyment in that because it's restful for me to sit at home. last night had no plans, I just hung out at home by. Made a dinner and then just kind of did whatever I felt like, which ended up reading cookbooks and making a grocery list for today and then going to bed. in order to create that space for yourself, you have to learn how to say no as well. And so if someone's inviting you to something, maybe it's like, Ashley, no, I don't want to go to your house for dinner on Sunday, or something like that. or even boundaries with yourself. Like, no, I'm not going to do X, Y, and Z because that's going to stress me out on this day. Like I am, I'm using my sabbatical to prioritize rest. So maybe it's boundaries around, like you mentioned, your podcast or the inner M B A program or whatever it is. You have to create that space and that structure to then allow openness to show up.

Yeah. No, I like that. And thinking specifically about the inner mba, right? One thing that. I felt last year, so this is my second go around with this. The last time I was like behind and just feeling terrible the whole time. And so it was like always on my mind and like, oh, I'm wasting this opportunity. There it is again. And so what I tried to do this time around, cuz around the same time it started again, Carter was going to school and so on Mondays, I work on the inner mba, like in Monday mornings I work on the inner mba. So that creates a boundary and a structure where it's like, I'll do what I can during that time and then that's it. I did it and it's fine. Yeah. and I, I'm kind of, I'm again behind a little bit, but this time also I have like a community that I'm part of, like a group that we meet on Fridays and it's just been so nice to have that. And so I'm like, not even. Concerned about the other, like the videos or anything like that. So maybe there's a way where it's like, okay, yeah, like I can rest and I can spend, I can still do Monday mornings on, the inner b a or Wednesday mornings or what, sometime I can spend on the inner b a, but then just go follow my curiosity. Like that's kind of one thing that I realized is like, I don't need to do all this stuff. Yeah. Like this is not a real mba, right? Like, this is me, this is something that I'm doing to learn and grow. So like I can follow my curiosity. If I don't want to do module, I don't need to do it.

no. and you are your own best teacher, and I think your intuition will always tell you what it is you actually need more so than any kind of external programming could.

yeah. Yeah, that's true. I just need to create the space to listen to that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I know we're over time, so I wanna wrap up. Is there any parting advice or, things that you would recommend I think about or anything?

let's summarize. I think some of the insights you've had throughout this, and I think one thing that comes to mind for me and a term I've been loving lately is this idea of soul assignments. And I think these show up either in the form of challenges in your life where something really unexpected is happening and it feels horrible. And then you realize that this challenge is here as a gift for your soul to continue to evolve and to become the next version of yourself. And it kind of gets into the idea of gratitude, but like, how can you look at everything happening in your life as happening for you and not to you? so that's one, way in which I think soul assignments show up. I think another way they show up is just these little downloads in your intuition as you've pointed out. Like, for example, the message that you got, the first one that I heard is, On this time really being a time for you to practice gratitude and practice being grateful for all of the amazing things in your life. But I'd love to hear from you a little bit maybe what you think some of those assignments would be that your higher self is giving you for these next three months.

I think one is is keeping top of mind and practicing paying attention to the fact that I have everything I say. I want to be happy like developing and practicing gratefulness. For the fact that everything I want I already have, I think is. Is going to make me happier overall and also is going to allow me to see a lot more opportunity in front of me. Because I realized like, wow, like I already have everything I want and I've, I created a lot of this in with my mind in a lot of ways. And so what else can I create? yeah, that, that's one. And then the other

one is, that one was so powerful. It really does. I think every time you talk about it, I just feel the vibe. So yes. That one feels so real and so true.

Okay, good. Yeah, it feels real for me as well. And it's shown up in so many ways. even like, I was talking to a friend of mine, and he was, we were talking, like, what, 2022, what are you thinking? What, that kind of thing. And like, I was like, I really want to develop my thought leadership. Like I want to become a thought leader in the space of mindfulness and financial independence. And he's like, dude, you already are. I was like, wait a second. What? he's like, dude, you have a podcast that you've been doing for two years with se, like 75 episodes. Like you are a thought leader. Yeah. Like, oh shit. You're right. So it's like, how many more of those are there, right? How many more of those and how many things in my life are. That I say, oh, if only this, then how many are just a s a shift in attention away from already being here. And what power can that, how amazing can that be for me to be operating from that place versus the if only place. Yeah. Yeah. And then, the other assignment I'd say that really feels very real for me is just this need to create space. And that's where the rest, and space are together for me. The rest enables me to create space that will open me up to possibility, That I might not see if I'm just keeping going forward and, continuing to hustle and do things right. And That feels very, very real for me as well. there's like this, I've heard this a bunch of times in like these various forums, like at Google Mindfulness, like in mindfulness circles, and it's like, there's something about like, don't try to do anything grandiose. Just find it clearing in the dense forest of your life and sit there with cupped hands and wait for your life's purpose to the message to fall into your hand, your cupped hands or something like that. Yeah. Like I'm butchering it big time. But it's that idea that when you create space in your life, you've, you said it perfectly on our last conversation. Like you, you create room for things to come to you that wouldn't come to you if your life was so full. And so I think that's a big assignment with this as well, is to like, not try to use this time to. Get somewhere. And do something. And like grow the podcast. Like in the past I'd be like, all right, I'm really gonna go for it. It's time. like, old Adam and 20 13, 20 14 would be like, all right, this is it. It's time to become an entrepreneur. Like, I'm gonna use this time and I'm gonna build this business so that I can leave Google and do it. Yeah. And now I don't feel that, It's just like, okay, I'm gonna use this time to create space in my life to see what arises. Yeah. Yeah. So I'd say those are the two big

ones. Yeah. So beautifully said. And yeah, I asked that question because I think, and I think all of us know, and sometimes it's just having someone else ask you the question or asking yourself the question. Then if you tune into your intuition, the answer shows up. And really truly, just the last point you said is creating space for those answers to materialize, because they inevitably will not always on time. Sometimes you're waiting there with open hands for a while, but Having a bit of trust and, what comes out of that.

And it doesn't always look the way you think it's gonna look. Yeah. Either. That's what's been really interesting. Yeah. Like the skate park cita.

Wait. Yes. let's end on the skate park Cita. So tell me what's

going on. there's a few things going on. number one, I already have the skate park cita, so I don't, so I, like, I, I spent so much time, usually when I'm stoned, just like fantasizing, like, oh my God. Like, all right, I'm gonna build it like over there. Like, where is this in my house? Like, we'll be like, Over there, like next to that barn, basically Uhhuh. and honestly, I still want to do it. Like I still want to do it, but I don't feel like it's all consuming and I need to do it, and I need to do it soon, and it needs to look like this. It's like, wow. Like I already have it. How lucky am I that I'm like hanging out all the time in this? I'm like, it's here. Like my sunroom is literally what I've envisioned, so I don't need anything else. And then on the skate park side of things, did I tell you about how I was like, Talking with this woman I did, I think at Woodward Summer camp. Yeah, at the summer camp. Yeah. I remember I cut that out of the episode. but it, I saved it separately, but Yeah, because I wanna, it's really interesting. The podcast is such a cool tool for me to see what my thinking was like. Oh yeah. In the past, it's like verbal journaling, right? yeah. Like, I listen and it's like, wow. Yeah. Like how many times did I talk about envisioning over the podcast? Like how many times have I talked about sabbatical? How many guests have I had that have taken sabbatical? You and Eric, And other people. And those are the popular episodes. Like Eric is my number two episode. And then, are like right below that and, but you have like four episodes, so you're probably, you're definitely the number one, on the podcast. So the summer camp. Yeah. I talked to her on Monday, actually this week, and she was telling me how like some amazing job opportunity came up in her world and she may not be there at the camp forever, which is obviously true anyways, but she and I have been talking for a while, like we're basically friends. Like she told me about this job and the only other person I knew about this job was her husband and she told me the, some person she's never met. and we basically, I might go in March to the camp and lead a mindfulness and or envisioning session for them.

So cool, Adam, wait, what? Yeah. And that's right in the middle of your sabbatical, so you have exactly complete freedom to go do that. Yep.

Amazing. Not complete freedom. I have a wife and so As well.

But a lot more freedom

too. A lot more freedom. Yeah. So it's that. Probably something around that will happen and I want to. I need to ask her and be like, look like, hey, like I'd love to like come to the camp for a weekend. They have these weekend getaways. I want to do one for free, obviously, you know me. but I want, like, I want to go there and experience it and just like go and skate in these amazing parks that I remember full night as a kid and it'll be awesome. And then go and do that thing in March and prob hopefully get paid. get paid something. I gotta ask. Yeah. but that was one of my things that I wanted to do this year, is I wanted to bring my envisioning workshop to another company. and so that's one piece. And then also, like, she's hiring a bunch of people to like create a more safe space for the campers. Like her whole thing is like she, her background is like preventing. And dealing with like sexual abuse of children. Like Wow. And so she was hired there to like, make sure that doesn't happen there. Because, it, when any place you have like a ton of people that are unsupervised, you're gonna have issues. Hopefully nothing too terrible. But her j her job is to make sure that nothing happens. And so she's hiring all these people that are gonna be like in the cabins, right? Like, there's not gonna be a cabin that's just unsupervised. and so just having people around that can support people when, not when bad things ha certainly when things happen like that, but when kids are homesick or just are stressed out and fighting with people. Because there's so many behavioral issues with Covid and the kids not going to school and just everyone, all the kids are fucked up. We're all fucked up. we

all Not just the kids.

Exactly. They're probably better off than most of us. That's true. That's true. Yeah. so anyways, long story short, I propose to her that maybe we do an online virtual training for these people that you're hiring. so that we can give them some skills, right? Yeah. Her giving them skills for like, recognizing abuse and, talking about it and what to do and all of that. And then me giving them skills of mindfulness and like S B N R and mindful listening and things like that, that can really, one, improve them as people, but also, make them more ready to support the campers. Yeah, so that's awesome because they don't have like bandwidth to do like the full thing, like they're feeling overwhelmed. So it's like, initially being like, know, curriculum development and going there and training, like doing some stuff maybe in the future. But honestly I don't know if I have the bandwidth for that anyway, so this might be a good, good way to gonna kind of get my feet in the door. And

it really sounds like you're letting curiosity lead the way, which is just perfect. So I

think so. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Awesome. Cool. I'm stoked for you. I'm so excited for you for these next three months. And yeah, even in those moments, you get anxious and restless, like, I think we both know that you're going to get so much out of it and Yeah.

Absolutely. Julia, thank you so much again. yeah, best of luck with

everything. Thank you. Thank you. Keep me posted. I can't wait to hear. I

will, I'm gonna, I'm gonna listen to this and, five times over, so see what I learned,

Yep. it's a great audio journal entry to come back to.

Absolutely. All right, Julia, thanks again. Talk to you soon. Bye. Bye, Adam. Bye bye.