126 : Creating Freedom and Choice with Financial Independence with Amy Minkley

Adam Coelho: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Mindful Fire Podcast, a show about crafting a life you love and making work optional using the tools of mindfulness, envisioning, and financial independence. I'm your host, Adam Coelho, and I'm so glad you're here. Each episode of the Mindful Fire podcast explores these three tools through teachings, guided meditations, and inspiring interviews with people actually living them to craft a life they love.

At its core, Mindful Fire is about creating more awareness and choice in your life. Mindfulness helps you develop self awareness to know yourself better and what's most important to you by practicing a kind, curious awareness. Envisioning is all about choosing to think big about your life and putting the power of your predicting brain to work to create the life you dream of.

And financial independence brings awareness and choice to your financial life, [00:01:00] empowering you to make your vision a reality by getting your money sorted out and ultimately making work optional. And here's the best part, you don't have to wait until you reach financial independence to live out your vision.

Mindful Fire is about using these tools to craft that life now on the path to financial independence and beyond. If you're ready to start your mindful fire journey, go to mindfulfire. org slash start and download my free envisioning guide in just 10 minutes. This guide will help you craft a clear and inspiring vision for your life.

Again, you can download it for free at mindfulfire. org slash start. Let's jump into today's episode.

[00:01:58] Welcome to the Mindful Fire Podcast

Adam Coelho: Amy, welcome to the mindful fire [00:02:00] podcast. I'm so glad to have you here. 

Amy Minkley: Thank you, Adam. I'm super excited to be here and to chat with your listeners and with you. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah, I've been looking forward to this one for a while. 

[00:02:09] Introducing Amy and the FI Freedom Retreat

Adam Coelho: You reached out to me, I guess it was, I don't know, it was probably like five months ago now about a retreat that you're hosting in Bali later this year in September called the five freedom retreat, which sounds super awesome.

And I. hope to join you sometime and maybe even facilitate a workshop or something for the attendees I'd love to talk more about that, but we can save that one for the end. So people can hear more about what you're planning, and your vision is for that retreat.

but I'd love to start by having you share a little bit with the audience about who you are, your journey and what you're up to in the world. Sure. 

[00:02:43] Amy's Journey to Asia and the FIRE Movement

Amy Minkley: As you mentioned, I am hosting a Five Freedom Retreat in Bali.

I've lived in Asia for since 2001. So 22 years now, I can't believe it. I thought I would move abroad for a year or two in 2001. And I fell in love with Asia and just kept renewing contracts, [00:03:00] more contracts and staying longer. So I've really fallen in love with Asia. With Asia, it feels like home to me.

Yeah I went abroad in 2001 for, a couple of years. I stayed four years in Japan and I ended up going to various countries in the region as an international school teacher. And I was really lucky with these international school contracts. I was able to save. Quite a lot. And luckily I found the fire movement as well, which set me on a journey to even greater freedom time freedom in my life.

So I've really appreciated that. And I recently quit my job in 2021, 2 years ago. That was a scary thing for me. But I'm really now just living my life that I always wanted to live, a more intentional designed life in Bali with my 

Adam Coelho: partner.

I love it. That's fantastic. 

[00:03:48] Overcoming Financial Challenges and Discovering FIRE

Adam Coelho: And I know that you found the fire movement at a time in your life where you were going through some challenges. I'd love for you to share a little bit about kind [00:04:00] of how that came to be and what FHIR represented as you work through those challenges. 

Amy Minkley: Sure, to get to that question, it might help if I just start.

back up and give some context for the challenges. Really, I had a very unhealthy relationship my whole life with money which started when I was 12. My family had money, my parents were happily married, and my dad walked out on the marriage when I was 12. Abandoned. That was my experience at the time.

He wasn't fully paying child support. He wasn't in the picture for several years and my mom and I went from having money to not having any money. And or not, I shouldn't say any money. That's not true. But having being really tight around money and we had to sell my childhood home.

We had to move to another state so she could go back to college and, Be near her family. And it was quite traumatic. My mom was heartbroken from my dad leaving. She was in shock. But her [00:05:00] biggest concern at the time was around money and she shared a lot of those money fears with me. So as a 12-year-old, I really, yeah, I had a lot of money affairs myself and I saw her reading financial books, studying and in college trying to get a degree and it really imprinted me and I learned how to save, in, in high school I worked two jobs, I was saving for college, I paid my way through college working two jobs, paying for my rent, my books and all of that.

So it was a difficult time and there were also a lot of blessings in that I learned how to from an early age. But it helped me to be really a great saver when I got my jobs internationally and all the schools that I worked at as an international school teacher, I was saving sometimes even 90 percent of my salary, so I was very focused on saving, but there was a dark side to that too.

I was not, I didn't always have a healthy relationship with money and yeah, so it's I think I burned myself out really coming from a place of, I need to save to feel safe. And I need to work [00:06:00] hard to feel worthy in these jobs that paid me very well and allowed me to save a lot. It was like a lifeline, these jobs for me.

And in order to keep this lifeline and the savings potential, I needed to work really hard. And so I basically burned myself out and decided to take a sabbatical year and came to Bali. I just absolutely loved having more location freedom and time freedom and ability to design my life. And I met a partner here and that was wonderful.

But then I went back only for money to a job in Bangkok. And that's when I hit a lot of depression and anxiety. I was seeing a therapist. I was overworking again, going back into old patterns. And that's when I found the FIRE movement.

Adam Coelho: Thank you for sharing that, Amy. that story, when I heard it on ChooseFI, which you were on recently, blew my mind, the hardship that you went through when you were 12 and how that formed your money identity and how that was super [00:07:00] helpful for a long time and allowed you to save a good amount of money and then, invest that and grow that, which set you up for financial independence.

[00:07:09] The Impact of Financial Independence on Amy's Life

Amy Minkley: But at the same time, you might have taken it to An unhealthy place and you had to recognize that you had to have awareness of that and then decide and choose a new path and so around this time that you came to discover the fire movement, What did that change for you?

It changed a lot. It felt like someone had thrown me a life raft. Like I could see a light at the end of the tunnel to mix metaphors. But I felt like I was in a really, one of the darkest periods of my life, and I didn't really have a concept of how much money I needed to be safe because no matter how much money I saved, I kept moving that goalpost and I didn't really have the financial knowledge to know how much do I need to retire.

I had some financial literacy. I'd read a lot of books. I knew how to invest in index funds and all of that, but I didn't know how much did I need. And I had this belief like I needed 5 million or something [00:08:00] like that. Really understanding, the 4 percent rule and hearing from others how much money they had and how much their expenses were, and I knew how much it cost me to live in Bali because I had lived that life in one sabbatical year that turned into two sabbatical years before I went to Bangkok and returned to teaching.

I really knew how much I needed to live and I knew that I was, once I discovered the principles, I realized I was better off than I thought I was from all those years of aggressive saving. I really am so grateful for the FIRE movement to to give me that education, to give me those case studies that I could have some kind of context to understand what's going on.

that I could design more freedom in my life, sooner than I thought I could. 

 I really love how you brought up the point of, before you discovered the fire movement and the principles, like the 4 percent rule, for instance, you felt like. There was never enough, right? There was an unlimited amount of money that you might need to be safe and retire at some [00:09:00] point.

Adam Coelho: And I can resonate a lot with that. When I discovered financial independence and the simple path to wealth, the book and choose Fi, all these podcasts that really helped me understand that finances and the concept of financial independence, I thought, yeah, I need a 5 million, 10 million of limited, right?

Like there. Just seemed like who knows how much money you need, right? What does it actually take to have some space to retire? Because I had never heard anything about that, but that was the big light bulb moment for me as well, where it's like, wait a second. I just need 25 times my annual expenses, roughly.

And so like, that was like, okay, if my annual expenses, let's say they're 100, 000, which I think is a pretty reasonable amount. Then I need 2. 5 million. It's a lot of money, but it's not 10 million. It's doable. And that kind of. Flipped the switch for me. So I really appreciate you bringing that up.

Amy Minkley: Yeah. Yeah, I think it did give me such a sense of hope [00:10:00] and really I suddenly I could see that there was a way out of the situation because I knew that I was a hustler and I was a hard worker and I didn't know how to do it any differently. At least I never found a way to, to do it very effectively as a teacher.

I saw a possibility for me to return to my life in nature and to, and the idea too is, I don't think, I'm never gonna bring in another dollar, or I'm gonna sit on the beach and drink pina coladas. Like I have a desire to contribute to society and I'm still gonna be doing things and bringing things into the world and earning some money.

So that also, I guess it gave me security to. Try something new in my life instead of feeling like I was stuck in a career and doing what everybody else did, which is like, I just, I only knew people who retired, around the age of 65. I never even knew that it was possible to think about retiring 20, 20 years earlier than that, for example, or 30, some people do it 30 years earlier than that, or so it's quite amazing.

And it was, when you see what the realm of a new possibility, it's, [00:11:00] it was eye opening for me. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah, that was, I had the same experience as well. And then it was like, wait a second,

what's possible if I do this? Getting on the path, right? Starting to build that financial literacy, that financial independence, realizing that, yeah, I've already saved up a good bit of money, so even if I'm not 100 percent there, I have a lot more options and a lot more choice in my life because of this and that, that brings up this, thing we were talking about before, this idea of possibility.

[00:11:31] Exploring the Possibilities with FIRE

Adam Coelho: And so how do you think about how FIRE, Financial Independence, or even the full Financial Independence Retire Early movement creates possibility for people? 

Amy Minkley: I think it creates possibility in so many ways, no matter where people are on their journey. I know that there's so many people all along the path in their financial journey listening to this podcast right now.

And there may be people who feel like, Man, I wish I would have heard this stuff years ago. And I started, I'm older [00:12:00] now and I've waited too late and I haven't saved that much. And they may feel like, is there As much hope for me, is it too late for me? And I just want to encourage all listeners that no matter where you are in your journey, it opens up possibility for you.

So the minute you get out of debt, you have more options and more possibilities in your life. The minute you save up your emergency fund, you have more choices. The first hundred thousand dollars, you'll have more options and more choices. And That first hundred thousand takes longer to save up, but, then it starts growing exponentially as that nest egg, starts to double with time.

I know, especially in the beginning, it can feel for listeners, maybe like, is it really possible for me to, and I just want to say, like you said, Adam, that. There are so many choices along the way. It's a spectrum. It's a continuum. It's not, fire or nothing kind of thing, but the more literacy, financial literacy we build in ourself, the more empowerment we give ourselves with these smart financial choices you'll be grateful to your future self later [00:13:00] that you've done that and you'll have So many more options and your family will be grateful for it.

So I know it's opened my life up in so many ways. And I hope that whatever listeners situation is that they'll also find possibility in their own lives. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think that it's. Not all about racing to this end goal of this fine number But it's not about sitting on the beach drinking pina coladas or playing golf every day of the year, right? We, people who are in this movement want to contribute, want to make an impact, but they want to do it on their own terms. 

[00:13:34] Designing Your Life with Financial Independence

Adam Coelho: And so I really think that FIRE gives you, opens you to possibility to start designing your life the way that you want right now, right?

And the first thing that people need to answer is what do you really want, right? What do you actually want your life to look like? And that's why I'm so passionate about envisioning and thinking big about your life and designing a big vision for your [00:14:00] life, because. Once you do that, you naturally, start moving in that direction automatically.

You start seeing things associated with that vision. You start moving in opportunities, right? It's funny, My big vision is to travel around the world teaching envisioning and mindfulness and these concepts that we talk about on the podcast.

And I want to bring my family with me and go around the world doing this for companies and people and whatever. And then I get an email from you saying, Hey, I'm hosting a retreat in Bali and I'd love to talk to you about maybe being a speaker. And I was like, There 

Amy Minkley: it is. And like the power of your vision, the power of what you manifest that there, Adam, that's amazing. 

Adam Coelho: I know it's wild. And, it's not working out this year, but it shows me that I'm on the right path and that this is possible. And so like, yeah, I'm not a hundred percent there and I have a full time job. And that's okay, right?

It's not like you have to, we don't have to like quit our [00:15:00] job and like never work again or never earn another dollar again. It's truly personal. And we can choose to create the life that we want. And that, I think, is the power of getting clear on your money and understanding that It creates options for you.

Amy Minkley: Yes. I feel like the fire movement has matured a lot from the early days of, being extremely frugal, like thinking that, happiness would, you would reach that when you hit that fire number and you finally quit the job and then people felt a sense of emptiness. Because, their whole identity was tied up with work and there's, community and social network and they didn't hadn't built any of that, time to think about their values and balance their life on the journey because they were so focused on aggressive savings.

This kind of slower path to fire and really thinking about building some of these things into your life, on the journey to fire and maybe cutting back on your work hours or, exercising some of those options and there's choices along the journey to find happiness in this [00:16:00] moment now, no matter where you are on the fire journey.

I believe, I think you hit it exactly right when you shared about this, cause it, it's so important for listeners to think about what are their values? What is their dream life? Not only post fi, but along their journey to fi and what can they do now? What can they implement in their life now?

Like what is their dream life look like? And are there pieces of that they can bring into their life now, today? So I love that. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah, it really is. And, the more I've paid attention to this fact, this truth that you just described, that we can start to bring in things into our life, the more I realize all those things that I was saying, if only this, if only that, right?

Like, for instance, if only I could teach mindfulness and get paid for it, right? When I shift my attention just a little bit, I can realize that, wait a second, I already have that. Like, I work at Google and part of my, on the job side hustle is teaching mindfulness. [00:17:00] Leading mindfulness, creating workshops, leading them for other employees.

So I have what I want, right? Or if I choose to, if I'm clear on what I want, I can find ways, like you said, to bring pieces of that life into my life now and start living into it. And so I think that's a game changer that a lot of people don't take advantage of because they're not clear on what they actually want.

Amy Minkley: And I think it's, I think it's. Really realizing that it's not about retiring early at all. It's, it could be, a better system, maybe just working less and taking longer to get to that five place and then maybe continuing to work because it brings some sense of meaning, even if it's scaled back quite a bit.

But I find I, Love having a purpose and I love contributing and I would never want to not do anything. So it's and it gives people the ability to quit earlier, if they don't love their corporate job, knowing that they're still going to bring in some income later, they could actually quit that job earlier and [00:18:00] exercise that choice sooner.

Adam Coelho: Yeah, there's so many ways to do it, right? Taking a sabbatical, taking a gap year, taking a long vacation, right? Like I'm on like two weeks of pat leave right now, my last two weeks for my youngest son. And while I spend a lot of time, like taking care of the kids, it's a nice little test, right?

podcast and this coaching program I'm putting together that explores the question, what do you actually want? And how do you start living that life now which you gave me some wonderful feedback on .

I actually came up with my own acronym for fire. So mindful fire.

I think of it not as financial independence, retire early, but financial independence reprioritize early. 

Amy Minkley: I love that. 

Adam Coelho: it's, it really is about options. And when you have financial independence, you have options and you can choose what to prioritize, right? So like you said, you can leave that [00:19:00] job because you maybe don't need to earn as much money.

 I've become really interested in these ideas of like slow fi and coast fi, which is basically you've saved enough for traditional retirement. That's going to grow. And now you just need to cover your living expenses. And if you already have some, post, like non retirement money, you can live off of that to supplement it.

And so if I'm financially independent, any money that I earn is just gravy, right? like, I can use that, I don't have to touch the other money, but this is all to say that when you have some level of financial independence, like Jess from the pioneers that I had on my show.

She's not even like 50 percent there and she's living her best life every day. Yes. And so it's like, you can really choose how you want to spend that time and. How you want to earn money to cover your expenses and as long as your expenses are not wildly out of control, you can probably find a lower paying job than maybe a full [00:20:00] time corporate job to do that and create some space to start living that post fi life right now.

Amy Minkley: Yeah. And I think what you were saying, Adam, about just taking some time off to reflect on your life is so valuable. You were mentioning having paternity leave now and whatever listeners can take, it doesn't have to be a whole gap year as whole sabbatical year.

It could be just asking your boss for some paid time off or, taking an extra two weeks and having a full month at a time but doing it intentionally. I know, I have taken three sabbatical years in the past and those were life changing for me because they gave me a different possibility of my life.

When I left New Delhi, India in 2017 and I was really burned out. And that's when I came to Bali and discovered a whole new life and my happiest life. and I met my partner and, I started a business here but it wasn't really bringing in money initially.

So I went back to teaching out of fear and money scarcity, old wounds, and that wasn't until later that I discovered FIRE. But there were so [00:21:00] many things I learned during those two sabbatical years, 2017 to 19, that were life changing for me. And the same thing in 2005, I took a sabbatical year and traveled around the world and I discovered international school teaching.

So. I can look at my life and just say that those times that I took time off were, I wouldn't trade that for any amount of money. So if listeners are able and it doesn't have to be a whole year, but if they're able to take some time off and do it intentionally, do a meditation retreat or do, do some breath work course or something, some kind of deep work, reflective work, or Adam, you're doing a coaching course that listeners, I'm sure, could get a lot out of to see.

How do they want to design their life? Those kind of intentional activities during your time off can really like you said, it leads you to, financial independence reflect early. And I love that acronym. I think that's the problem. The FIRE acronym, it really, I don't love it. I don't love the retire early part of it. So I'm excited and inspired [00:22:00] by how you redefined it. 

Adam Coelho: You make a lot of good points, Amy, like. You need to create some space in your life so that you can ask these big questions, right? I, as you were talking, I was thinking of a metaphor that I've heard about mindfulness and it's that Our minds are like a snow globe and we're constantly shaking it up and agitating it, right?

And our lives are like that, right? We have so many things going on. We're working and family and friends and it's just very full and it's very busy. And mindfulness is like setting the snow globe down on the table, allowing the snow to settle so that we can see more clearly what's inside.

And I really think that is what creating some space in your life, whether it's a weekend or taking a week off work and just staying at home or going on a little retreat or something like that. It can really allow things to settle and for you to really connect with yourself and what [00:23:00] is most important to you.

And I recently had a sabbatical series on the podcast. I'm not sure if you heard that, but it was, I took a sabbatical last February to May 2022. I posted it a year later, but I took it last year. And my only intention for the time off was. Rest, Play, and Connect.

No podcast, no anything, because my old self, and honestly, I've gotten a little bit, I've gone up and down with this even since, but my old self would be, let me use this time to just hustle and build this business because I gotta leave Google and I gotta do this and, it's just more striving. But this time I decided Rest, Play, Connect, and by the end of it I realized.

If I have nothing to show for this time, that is okay. And that was like the big realization for me, which is like weird, but also great. 

Amy Minkley: Yeah, that's amazing. And I can really relate to you, Adam, [00:24:00] a lot because I've been a hard worker my whole life and it's my strong suit or what I identify with and a way that I've been successful.

I've relied on working hard to, get by in life and it's worked. But ultimately it left me dissatisfied. It may have got me the jobs at the top tier international schools But, ultimately that strategy. was a losing strategy because I would work myself to the point of burnout.

I can definitely relate to this idea of like hustling and this feeling of, if I take off, I need to be doing something and having to reframe that and being okay with relaxing. And yeah, for me having more time off than the standard, Two week off American holiday, what most employees get.

That's tough because there's so many things to do for family. There's a lot of life admin. I love how you started your sabbatical time with three clear values of what you wanted to get out of it was rest, play and connect. What was that? Yeah. To be intentional [00:25:00] like that, if listeners are able to do that and to think about how they can design it so they, they are sure that they get what they want out of it, And if I don't break that pattern, I will be the over worker and the over hustler and the over saver. And ultimately I'm not happy in that. My old patterns. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah, it was definitely very helpful.

But as I said, I've we have so much history and, neuroplasticity built up from acting the way that we do because it helped us get where we are. So we have, so this is all to say that I've fallen back into that a couple of times since then. And I'm still trying to find a really good balance.

I'm trying to find some balance with it, because these things like the podcast and the coaching program, I'm very excited about, but I don't want them to be on my mind 24 hours a day. I've, I feel like I've made a lot of progress, but, there's still work to do and it's really a lifelong practice.

I can relate to that. 

[00:25:50] The Power of Geo Arbitrage: Living the Dream in Bali

Adam Coelho: So Amy, I know one of the things that has allowed you to achieve financial independence is geo arbitrage, right?

Basically, yes, earning [00:26:00] money in one place and living in a lower cost of living place. So I'd love to hear what you. What as the power of that and then I'm curious, like, what does your life actually cost in Bali, if you're willing to share? Might inspire some people to move and become your new fire friend.

Yes, 

Amy Minkley: I would love it. I would love to have a fire community here, so please move here. Yeah, Geo Arbitrage has been great on my path.

I've been so lucky to stumble onto this. And I studied history, which was what I loved. I didn't really know what I was going to do with that, with a bachelor's degree. And I learned about teaching ESL abroad and discovered that I loved teaching.

And that I could actually work at international schools and save a lot of money because they pay your housing and they pay your flights over and so there's a huge savings potential, especially at top tier schools in Asia, in particular. 

So for your listeners, I want to just encourage them that if this is something that interests them, if they're a teacher, it's a great opportunity for sure.

But if They [00:27:00] have a profession that maybe there is an opportunity to go abroad and they could earn more abroad, you know That is something to do some research on and see if that's something that their company could Allow them to do or maybe they could be a digital nomad somehow or work remotely with their company it's more possible than it's ever been before so You know, I'd encourage listeners if there's a way for them to carve out some, some way to geo arbitrage their life, if it interests them, it might be a way to save more money on their path.

And it doesn't always have to be international a lot of people have gone from the Bay Area and lived, moved really anywhere else in the country. That's cheaper. 

Adam Coelho: me. 

Amy Minkley: It doesn't have to be international, so it can be, to a lower cost of living area in your own country. But for me, I love living in Bali. I still would choose it even if it was the same price as the U. S. It's pretty nice that I can live there.

Like a king or queen here. But it still would be my choice no matter the cost of it. It's a lovely place to live. So you asked about my cost of living in Bali, and I would say [00:28:00] on an average day I spend about 50 USD. And then I always bake in a few extra thousand at the end of every year.

That would add up to be eight. 18, 000 a year, but I spend more than that. 50 USD on an average day. But then, I spend 1500 a year on insurance. I do a couple of courses every year. I would say on average in a year, I'm probably spending closer to 25, 000 or maybe 20, 24, 23, 000, something like that.

That's pretty good. Yeah. That's just for me, and I'm, that's me doing everything that I wanna do that's going to yoga every day. That's eating out really in nice restaurants, getting multiple cappuccinos and desserts. 'cause I like them . roadside stands and like living in a basic, bungalow or anything like that. It's doing everything that I want to do, flying home multiple times. And I fly home on miles. But it's, I'm not supporting a child. It's, That's the cost for one person. And my partner's also fired.

He's also supporting himself so that, he would have a similar cost to me. So we're living a, we're living, we're not living the cheapest life we [00:29:00] can live in Bali by any means. 

[00:29:01] Exploring the Cost of Living and Personal Growth in Bali

Amy Minkley: And you could also spend a lot more money here if you wanted to, if you wanted to really plush.

expansive, mansion kind of place in the rice paddies you could, but we have a, nice place in the rice paddies and it's two bedroom, two baths. So it's still big enough for us. 

Adam Coelho: Amazing. Yeah. So between the two of you, it's about 50, 000 for the year. Yeah. 

Amy Minkley: We spend probably less than that.

Yeah. I would say less than that, but we also love to do some things that are, I love to, personal growth work. So I, I'm going to go to Tony Robbins this year. I've, I'm investing in an awakened leadership course. It's going to be another thousand, a thousand dollars, but that's what I really value.

So I don't spend money on clothes and jewelry and, those kinds of things. Like I really want to spend on experiences that are really going to cause me to deeply reflect on my life and help me to grow as a human that's and I enjoy it. I spend on those kinds of things. 

Adam Coelho: Got it.

Yeah, makes sense. Makes sense. And yeah when you can live for [00:30:00] relatively cheap because of geo arbitrage, it opens up the opportunity to, yeah, do exactly what you want. But as you said, you could certainly ball out, right? I went to some places in Bali. Very nice. Very nice. Very nice. So there's a huge scale, right?

Amy Minkley: There is a huge scale. There is a huge scale. And I'm, I'm somewhere in the middle. There's so many people.

It's incredible. I feel like I wake up every day and I'm so joyful about You know what lies ahead of my day. So I could talk a little bit if listeners might be interested in what a day looks like in Bali. If you're interested 

Adam Coelho: in that, I would love to hear that.

Yeah. 

Amy Minkley: Yeah. 

[00:30:35] A Day in the Life: Teaching, Yoga, and Personal Development

Amy Minkley: I am teaching kids online. I coach, I do some coaching with kids who have ADHD, executive functioning, coaching, and really, if I teach one hour a day, that will cover my costs, I make more than 50 an hour, but I'm not a significant amount more once I take out taxes and all that.

But yeah, then I go to yoga. So I do that early in the morning because the students are in California, so it's their afternoon. So it works out perfectly. So I'll go do the one hour [00:31:00] coaching. If I have a student that morning, I'll go to yoga and there's so many fun classes here. I do. I sing a lot. I dance a lot.

I do authentic relating and circling and lots of those kind of deep kind of inner work. I love communication. So I do, improv, which is fun. I'm working on public speaking. So lots of opportunities here to grow. And that's what I love about Bali. There's a community of entrepreneurs and digital nomads and super inspiring people.

So I'm able to learn a lot from them and take classes every day. There's like, at least. Three or four events every day that I would like to attend. I have to sometimes like be selective because otherwise I'll be busy You know attending all the options there are 

Adam Coelho: yeah, you got to be choiceful about what's most important.

[00:31:47] Navigating the One More Year Syndrome: A Personal Journey

Adam Coelho: Amy, you mentioned that, After your sabbatical in Bali, you went back to Bangkok to work purely because you thought you needed the money. And I know that you and Brad [00:32:00] from ChooseFI at the Economy Conference facilitated a discussion on what's called the One More Year Syndrome, where people keep working because they either Don't know what they want or they're afraid they're going to run out of money for some reason.

I would love to hear your experience with One More Year and just like what you learned from that discussion at Economy.

Amy Minkley: Yeah, it was for me, it was always hard to walk away from these international school jobs because All of my expenses basically were being covered mostly, and I shouldn't say all of them, but yeah, I was, didn't cost me much to live with my rent being covered, furnished place, often transportation's covered it, for me, I, I really hit one more year syndrome even though I was living my best life in Bali, and I'd taken a sabbatical year that turned into two sabbatical years, I thought I need to go back to work, and then when I went back to work, I went back for one year.

And I decided I was very miserable there. But as soon as the school year is August to June, you have to make [00:33:00] a decision on November 1st. Do you want to renew for the next school year? And I really hit rock bottom, when I landed there, cause I turned my back on my best life and I was going into overworking to feel worthy and saving to feel safe.

And so I was waking up at three in the morning with anxiety. So even though I was, in that state of like deep depression, anxiety, I decided to renew and I signed a contract, on November 1st and signed up for that second year. And I went away in Christmas holiday, December that year.

And I just thought I can't do this. Like I'm actually miserable. It's affecting my relationship. I'd been single in Asia for I think 15 years. And I'd finally met my partner in Bali. I dragged him to Bangkok. It was really affecting our relationship after I'd been single for so long and longed for a relationship.

 I was putting everything on the line for money. for this job my mental health, my physical health, my relationship and having that time at Christmas, having that space like we talked about before, Adam, having three weeks off and really reflecting and seeing it from A bird's eye [00:34:00] view.

I realized I can't do another year and it was the scariest thing I ever did. I went in and told my principal that I was going to break that contract that I had signed on November 1st. And I knew that could potentially blacklist me and I might not be able to get another international school job, if you break a contract.

But I let them know as soon as I could. And, there's still plenty of time to hire someone for the next year. And And then the job got better and I learned how to balance a little bit more and actually thinking that I was going to leave gave me some reprieve in a way. And I actually ended up working that second year, they still needed someone, they hired me anyway.

And so I worked two years in Bangkok. So I really did have, one more year syndrome. It was scary to walk away. I finally did walk away after two years, but I had a wall of fear. Because what I experienced when I was 12 was my family had money and then overnight when my dad left, we didn't.

And so I imprinted in my subconscious that money can disappear at any moment. So I had that story of like, okay, I've got this nest egg, [00:35:00] who knows what could happen in the future. So I need to work. I need to continue to have the access to this. Job that allows me to save a lot. Learning about the fire movement and the 4 percent rule helped a lot, but I really also had to do a lot of work around money mindset and really examine the subconscious beliefs as well and understand those to and then I'm going to unpack that and it took some time in Bangkok, going down that fire rabbit hole to really fully get, and I don't actually, to be honest, I still don't fully get it, like you said, it's a work in progress, it's like two steps forward, one step back, but I would say I'm, yeah, I'm mostly there now, like I, I feel a lot more secure with my money I'm spending more than I have in the past, I feel more comfortable spending more so yeah, I've made, I made a lot of progress, but still there's certain nights or some, sometimes I'll purchase something and I, I have a little bit of buyer's remorse, like, can I really afford that? Is it really okay? 

Adam Coelho: Got it. And you had facilitated this discussion with Brad from Choose FI at [00:36:00] conference what came up in that conversation for others experiencing the one more year syndrome.

Amy Minkley: Great question. That breakout session was so good. And we got a lot of feedback afterwards from participants saying, wow, that was really one of the best breakout sessions we went to. And I think what was magical about it is we gave participants a lot of time to talk to each other. So they were in groups of four and we gave them some key questions to discuss about, what was their ideal life that they were creating?

What was stopping them from Doing quitting their job and actually walking away from that. And what is one action that they could take, in the next. 90 days, I think we said, and we talked about just even a one degree shift, if you're selling a sailboat, one degree can totally change where you end up on your journey, when you look at the final destination.

So we asked them to discuss that in. in groups of four, those three questions. And Brad and I sat in the back and talked. If you want to know the truth, we were [00:37:00] gabbing a lot and they, but they got so much from the conversations. 

So they were really talking to each other, and we didn't really what I found in other breakout sessions is sometimes there's, the whole group, there's volunteers that raise their hand, and you only end up hearing from a couple of people who take, use more air time, which is, great, but then other people don't feel heard, and so I felt like in that breakout session, everybody got to talk and share but we didn't really hear what the participants were saying as much.

Adam Coelho: Got it. Yeah, I love the way that you facilitated that. Those questions are fantastic. The setup, like, as a facilitator myself in facilitating programs at Google and outside, I love doing that. I love getting people talking to each other because then everyone gets to talk, right? And everyone gets to talk, everyone gets to listen, they get ideas from each other and everybody feels heard.

And so I really appreciate that. 

Amy Minkley: Cool. Yeah. So I guess if listeners are struggling with, if that's something they're thinking about, I think it can be a useful exercise for them to do at home is to, [00:38:00] journal about what is your best. Life look like write that down really, as Adam talks about really envision that get really clear, what your day looks like from the moment you wake up in the morning and then where you have lunch and what you do in the afternoon and what you, what your evening looks like journaling about that.

and then journaling about what's stopping you? What is the subconscious belief from childhood, remembering back to your money script and what you learn from your parents and journaling into that fear Like what's the worst that could happen, you know doing some fear setting around that And then imagining, okay, on the flip side of that, what's the best thing that could happen?

Because a lot of times, I know I imagine all the worst case scenarios, but I don't imagine that it might be better than I could ever anticipate. And then the last question is, what is one action that you can take, this week? And then, maybe set up an accountability buddy with your, with a friend and see if work through these things together and every, I have a accountability buddy that I text every day what I'm going to do for the day and what order I'm going to do it in.

[00:39:00] But I find that, the power of the FIRE community is the support that we lend each other. And it comes from a lot of times these in person events. But it can also just be a friend who's supportive. Supporting you on your journey and setting up some kind of way to have some ownership with them and share the journey with them is very helpful.

Adam Coelho: Yeah I totally agree. And if people want to get started with this envisioning process and really asking yourself, what is your best life look like? I put together a free guide that people can download at mindfulfire. org slash start. And then these other questions that you added on, like, what's stopping you and what's the worst that can happen, I think are excellent additions to that.

And that's really, what the coaching program that I'm putting together is going to be about. It's going to be answering the question, what do you really want? Through journaling and mindful coaching conversations. And then how do you start to move forward? How do you [00:40:00] start to practice that vision?

using envisioning and mindfulness and affirmations and then talking about your vision. I think one of the things that people overlook so often is the power that comes from talking about your vision. And the way I think about it is that it, number one, it makes it more clear for you because you have to put it into words.

And number two, it makes other people aware of what you want. And allows them to now notice things that are aligned with your vision. And when they find them to come to you and say, Hey, have you thought about this? Or you should talk to this person. And that really accelerates everything. So that's what I'm excited to bring into the world.

Hopefully soon enough. 

Amy Minkley: I wrote that down mindfulfire. org. backslash start. Yeah, that's great. It's so important. And like you said, talking about finding community, supporting each other on the journey, you're creating it with your words, you're making it real, you're putting into existence and then being willing to take imperfect action.

I know [00:41:00] for me, I'm a perfectionist. I'm wanting to get it right. But just being willing to like, learn as you go, just put something out there and figure it out as you go. It's the only thing for me. Yeah, it was scary for me, but 

Adam Coelho: yeah, me too. I'm a perfectionist as well, even though I don't think I don't like to think so, but I certainly am.

All right, Amy, let's switch gears a little bit. I'd love for you to share with the audience. 

[00:41:21] Creating Community and Impact: The Phi Freedom Retreat

Adam Coelho: What you're planning with the Phi Freedom Retreat. Tell us all about it. 

Amy Minkley: Thank you. I'm super excited. It's the first financial independence fire event in Asia or this side of the world, actually. I felt so inspired, I was hearing on the, when I discovered the fire movement and was deep diving on all the podcasts and hearing about a, economy and Camp Fi and all of the events in the U.

S. I was hungering for community and it was during the pandemic. And so I went to the U. S. after I quit my job in Bangkok 

 and I went to nine fire events, the U. S., So I went to my first one and it was one of the most fun weekends I had in a long time.

[00:42:00] And so then I ended up signing up for eight more and I felt so inspired by the community. I had just left my job. I was still feeling a little shaky, like, am I going to be okay? Is this the right move? People sat down, looked at my spreadsheet, logged onto Vanguard with me, looked at my asset allocation.

People really gave their time, and they had so much heart, and it really moved me, and I wanted to create that kind of opportunity for people on this side of the world. A lot of people, the firearm movement's big in Asia and Australia and other places too, but it's hard for them to fly to the U.

S. to go to a fire event. And then I also found a lot of Americans want to come to Bali and connect with their friends, connect with community here and have an adventure together. So that's why I created it really, because I've gotten so much from this community and I wanted that opportunity for others and to give back to this community that's meant so much to me.

So yeah, it's going to be Five days long. We're going to have incredible [00:43:00] speakers. But also the participants who are coming are super money savvy. They're very heart centered. They're wonderful people. So I found at these events, I learned just as much from the other participants as I do from the speakers.

We're going to go on adventures together. We're going to be doing water temple blessings, watching cultural dances looking at going, through rice paddy walks and getting into nature. And then just hanging out, having conversations around the pool really talking about what matters in life.

It's, we'll talk a little bit about accumulation on the path to fire, but really mostly it's going to be more about life design. What kind of life do we want to create? How do we want to live our life intentionally? And I find that it's such a supportive community oriented group of people that I always walk away inspired.

So I'm very excited about it. And the feedback has been great. Like it's sold out really quickly and I've got a long wait list now. So I feel really confident that there's, the [00:44:00] desire is there and I love Bali. So I can't wait to show attendees Bali. So if any of your listeners are interested, they can go to my website, which is fifreedomretreatswithans.

com. Fifreedomretreats. And they can go down to the footer and they can sign up for the mailing list. And that way they'll be the first to know about the event in 2024. 

Adam Coelho: Sounds incredible. I hope to be there in 2024. 

Amy Minkley: That would be great. I would love to have 

Adam Coelho: you. It's be so wonderful. I just, I love Bali as well.

I went there in 2013. I get, wow, that's so long ago. So long ago, only for a weekend, 10 years ago, 

Amy Minkley: only a 

Adam Coelho: weekend, wow, only a weekend. Yeah. Just, I was in Singapore for a work rotation and popped over to Bali for a weekend and it was amazing. So I hope to come and I think, yeah, it's going to be such an amazing opportunity for people to connect and to learn from each other and to experience a new place in a [00:45:00] new Way of living, right?

Get themselves out of their normal comfort zone and just, yeah, I can only imagine the amazing ideas and connections that are going to come out of that. As Amy said, if you want to sign up for the wait list, so you're the first to know when the next retreat is opened up for registration, you can go to FIfreedomretreats.Com and I will include that in the show notes as well, wherever you're listening to this. 

Amy Minkley: Okay. I just want to make a plug, for the events in the U S as well, because they've made such a difference in my life. And and I always go to them when I'm in the U S I go to everyone that I can. So go to Camp Fi if, if listeners can't come to Bali or in addition to Bali, Camp Fi is amazing.

There's, I think, eight events a year and there I've been to a lot of them. Economy is incredible. Diana puts on an incredible show. So these are a camp mustache in Seattle. There are opportunities all over the U S and so that's another option for listeners as well. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah. And I'd also add the choose FI meetup groups as well.

So I think that's a choose FI. [00:46:00] com slash local. I'll include that in the show notes as well. I've loved being a part of those communities as well. 

Amy Minkley: So Amy, I'd love to switch gears now into what I call the mindful fire final four.

Adam Coelho: Are you ready? I'm ready. 

All right, Amy.

The first question is about envisioning. 

[00:46:16] Envisioning a Life of Freedom and Impact

Adam Coelho: I'm wondering if there is anything that you're envisioning for your life now? Any big vision? 

Amy Minkley: Yeah, I have a vision for impact. I really I'm excited about community, about opening people's eyes to another possibility for their life. And I feel like there's something special that happens when you go to a new country as well, because it takes you out of your comfort zone and it shows you, a whole new view of the world.

So I want to create that sense of freedom for others. And I also, I really have a heart for charity. So I really I want to be giving back. And I've been reading the life that you can say by Peter Singer. And he talks about give well [00:47:00] and really that would be my goal is like, how can I create freedom for more people?

And then how can I really give back? I lived in India for four years and worked across the street from a slum and how can I really make a difference for people in the world who don't have a lot of opportunities? I love 

Adam Coelho: that. And that's super powerful. And, I share your passion for helping people create freedom in their life.

And, I see for myself, like there's an opportunity to help people who have already made it. who have already reached a level of financial independence to design the life that they want to live. I think there's a big opportunity there and to build a business there. But I also see there's a huge opportunity to help people right at the beginning or even like in high school to understand, like to learn these things, mindfulness and financial independence, because I really see them as achieving the same goal, right?

They allow you to have awareness and choice in your life. And with [00:48:00] those two things, you can do anything you want. And if you get on this path, right from the start, it's just, I can only imagine the possibility that people can create for themselves, and the options, and the kind of generational change that they can make for their family, by starting out with these tools.

Yeah, I 

Amy Minkley: loved it. I loved it. I think, when we are no longer tied to the job for money and we have the time and freedom to really, Be intentional and contribute more, like what a world could we live in, by creating freedom and other people's lives, what contributions will those people make?

And so it's just, grows exponentially. 

Adam Coelho: Yeah, I had this this idea and I dabbled in a little bit at Google, where I think like, I want to teach like financial independence to like every Googler who starts at Google. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my 

Amy Minkley: goodness. Think about that. 

Adam Coelho: Like these people are hardworking, smart, passionate, interesting [00:49:00] people that probably want to do more than just sell ads with their life or, whatever, like they contribute at work, but they have done and want to do so much more. And Google has so many resources to help people build their financial future.

But a lot of people don't know about them. Until later, like I was like five or six years into my career till I learned about the post tax 401k. Oh, my goodness. Yes. That's like hundreds of thousands of dollars I could have been saving. Not that I was making that much at the beginning.

But it could have been more than I was. Anyway, so I'll share all my visions with you, Amy. 

Amy Minkley: Yeah, perfect. I like 

Adam Coelho: it. So the second question is, what piece of advice would you give to someone early on their path to financial independence? 

Amy Minkley: I would say education is the key, because it's so important not to outsource your financial literacy to someone else.

I saw my mom after my dad left reading financial books. And, I started, I read my first one as a teenager and that [00:50:00] wasn't because I was a smart teenager. That was simply because of the circumstances of my family and the wound there that I had, but it was a gift in a lot of ways.

And so if listeners can. educate themselves. That is something that no one can take away from you. The stock market, can drop and do what it does. But if you have that education that you don't sell in a panic moment, and you resist that kind of herd mentality of everybody's selling, like, but just staying the course, I think that's more valuable than having the best financial advisor because they can't control your behavior.

So for me, education is the key. 

Adam Coelho: And what, if you could recommend one book, what would it be? One 

Amy Minkley: book. Of course, I have to choose JL Cole and Simple Path to Wealth. It's my favorite, it's the book I always recommend to people just starting out on their journey. I think it's really comprehensive, really well laid out. That's the one I always recommend to my friends. And I always also share the JL Collins talk at Google. That's my favorite talk. And I think it's, I've watched it multiple times.

And anytime I get a little bit [00:51:00] shaky, I, to, remember to stay the course and connect to my investment strategy. I watched that talk again. I think it's so excellent as well as this. I love his meditation. Have you heard his 

Adam Coelho: meditation? I have. I have. And I loved it too. I loved it.

Wasn't expecting it, but I loved it. It was like at the beginning of pandemic, right? Yes. That was great. Yeah. Yeah, I, that book is, I recommend it all the time. People on the, they're listening to this, have heard me talk about it a million times. So Simple Path to Wealth is wonderful. I'll have a link to that in the show notes, to the talk at Google in the show notes as well.

All right, Amy, now question number three, what piece of advice would you give to someone getting started with meditation and or mindfulness? I would say being able to. allow anything or welcome anything. And I don't really love the word welcome, but that's the way that's the word I'm playing with right now.

Amy Minkley: So I know when I sit, sometimes my mind is really [00:52:00] busy and just when I resist all the thoughts that are coming up and I get into a story of like, Oh, I can't meditate right now. Why is my mind so busy? It, it doesn't help. And so just noticing that my mind is busy, allowing it, accepting it.

And that goes along with discomfort as well. When I feel When I feel shame, when I feel disappointment, when I feel sadness, when I feel angry anger, if I can sit with it and allow it and almost like welcome it, sit by the fire with it, if you will I found a lot of power in that allowing myself to be with a discomfort and welcoming it in a way and then by welcoming it or not rejecting it, I find that it eases it.

So that's been very helpful for me. 

Adam Coelho: Great advice. No one has mentioned that on the podcast yet, but allowing is. Is key. It's key to the practice, right? I like talking about it as a kind, curious awareness to yourself and whatever [00:53:00] arises. 

Amy Minkley: I like that. Kind, curious awareness. Yeah. And 

Adam Coelho: the last question, Amy, is how can people connect with you, learn more about what you're up to, your retreat?

We already mentioned can be found at fivefreedomretreats. com, but where else can people connect with you online to maybe ask questions or just learn more about 

Amy Minkley: what you're up to? Great question. The best place is really my website. I'm not a big social media person. I try to stay offline a little bit. Best to go to byfreedomretreats.

com and go to the footer, sign up for the mailing list. You will see a link to, I think the Facebook event there, and you can add me on Facebook if you like, but I'm not on a lot of social media. Although maybe I will get on it later, but I just try to avoid it a little 

Adam Coelho: bit. You're not missing anything, Amy.

I'll tell you. I was off for like two or three years, completely. And then I made a podcast and it turns out if you don't tell people about it, no one will know. No one listens. Yeah. So I got back [00:54:00] into it and yeah, finding balance is, it's tough. So if you're off, stay off. You don't need to get into it.

You're not missing anything. All right. All right. Thank you. Amy, this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your experience and wisdom with the 

Amy Minkley: audience. Thank you, Adam. It's been so much fun to talk to you. 

Adam Coelho: Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the Mindful Fire Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, I invite you to hit subscribe wherever you're listening to this. This just lets the platforms know you're getting value from the episodes and you want to be here when I release additional content. If you're ready to start your mindful fire journey, go to mindfulfire.

org slash start and download my free envisioning guide in just 10 minutes. This guide will help you craft a clear and inspiring vision for your life. Again, you can download it for free at mindfulfire. org slash start. Thanks again, and I'll catch you next time on the mindful fire [00:55:00] podcast.