113 : Retiring Early to a Life of Adventure with Debbie & Chris Emick

Welcome to the Mindful Fire Podcast, a show about crafting a life you love and making work optional using the tools of mindfulness, envisioning, and financial independence. I'm your host, Adam Quail, and I'm so glad you're here. Each episode of the Mindful Fire Podcast explores these three tools through teachings, guided meditations, and inspiring interviews with people actually living them to craft a life they love. At its core, mindful Fire is about creating more awareness and choice in your life. Mindfulness helps you develop self-awareness to know yourself better and what's most important to you by practicing a kind, curious awareness. Envisioning is all about choosing to think big about your life and putting the power of your predicting brain to work to create the life you dream of. And financial independence brings awareness and choice to your financial life, empowering you to make your vision a reality by getting your money sorted out and ultimately making work optional. And here's the best part, you don't have to wait until you reach financial independence to live out your vision. Mindful fires about using these tools to craft that life. Now on the path to financial independence and beyond. If you're ready to start your Mindful Fire journey, go to mindful fire.org/start and download my free envisioning guide in just 10 minutes. This guide will help you craft a clear and inspiring vision for your life. Again, you can download it for free@mindfulfire.org slash start. Let's jump into today's a. Episode.

Deb and Chris, welcome to the Mindful Fire Podcast. I'm so glad to have you here.

Hey Adam, thanks for having us. We are equally excited. Yeah,

super excited to talk with you today, Adam, enjoyed our conversation, last time and can't wait to see what you got for us.

Yeah, it's been a while since we last talked when I was a guest on your podcast. Go bucket yourself. I guess last year in the summer, and you were supposed to be on my podcast, but my second son was born, Maybe the day after or the day of the interview. we had to reschedule. took us a little while, but really glad to have you here. thanks for being

here. That was a good reason to reschedule. the best reason, and we're glad to be able to make it work now, thank you.

I'd love to have you start by sharing with the audience a little bit about who you are, your journey, and what you're up to in the world.

I am a 43 year old father of two beautiful girls, 17 and 12. I've married to Debbie, the other beautiful voice on this, podcast for 20 years coming up in 12 days. we're about to hit our 20 year mark We now have an abundance of time and the privilege to work on all sorts of neat things in life because we stepped away from traditional, employment. I left my job in 2019 and Deb, left teaching in 2015. And we are able to do that with our rental real estate, portfolio that we built. during my working years I was in technology and I'm just, excited to be in this chapter of life, of Retire earlier, and all the lessons that I've learned. and just the connections I've made and this, I'm just beaming with life right now. that's who I am.

that's a lot of my who also, but I will just say that, in 2015 when I decided to step away from my job, I was doing so because I had been diagnosed with some fairly significant health conditions, autoimmune diseases, and I thought that was the answer to all of my problems health wise and that would help me get healthy. And that's where the ball just started rolling. We then started looking into how we could be financially unencumbered by W two employment or an employer, and that led to our rental real estate and also just gave more time and energy to get. more clear about what actually was causing my health issues. just brought a lot of consciousness in that respect and the ability to put time and energy toward that awareness and healing in that respect. that health issue is what led to where we are now, where we're able to have autonomy over our time and build this life that we, consciously want to build and also hopefully empower other people to do so in their lives as well.

it sounds like this journey to financial independence really started in that health situation and leaving your job in 2015, did all of the real estate and all of that come after that point?

Yeah. Actually it didn't come until after I left, maybe a year or so, we bought our first rental. Just thought we would finally take the risk and try it out and see what happened. And then it went fairly quickly from there. But yeah, all after I left my job.

it really is the catalyst, the impetus, the thing that got it all started because up until that point we were following the normal script, that we in inherited, from an early age of finish high school, go to college, get married, white picket fence car, two and a half kids and all of that. never really questioning anything in our lives. Never really getting that aware of why we're making these decisions. We're just doing what everyone else was doing. And then, when Debbie first started getting those diagnoses in her early thirties, and I started paying attention to what she was softly trying to say, which is like, life at 65 might not look great for me and there's even possibility that I'm not gonna be there. And that was my whole goal at that time is we just do this thing so that when we retire at 65, life will be amazing. stay the course And we built our lives numbed out to ourselves, but still following those financial principles of contributing to our 401k and And then when that health scare came and it opened our eyes and opened our hearts to, is this a life if and it has you questioning, even though it was Debbie's health, it just starts having you question everything you hear stories all the time of relatively young healthy people, having their life, ended. And so it's, it was just a huge wake up call that, that helped to catalyze and motivate us. And our hope is, that we can help others to find inspiration in their lives, maybe without that kind of, health scare to prod them forward.

I'm so glad you both went into that because that's your why, right? that's your, as they say, the why of fi, and what a huge wake up call that, life is not guaranteed to anybody. Tomorrow is not guaranteed to anybody, and we shouldn't be delaying our. to some point in the future, when everything's just gonna work out. When we have some magical amount of money that's gonna make everything work out, that's not really how it works. I love that you took that and moved forward and just made it happen and now are living that life. that's amazing.

I was just gonna say that's exactly the point. It it just made us aware that we were living by this sort of someday script, Where it's like right now we're so busy and tired and burnt out And so it's a reality for everyone, Not just someone that gets a diagnosis that you never know what someday holds. it empowered us to start building the life we wanted today instead of continuing to put it off for someday.

Yeah. I feel I'm living in that someday right now. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. you know, maybe it's that I have young kids and I'm trying to psych myself up to get through the day. which I think is very real. But on this podcast I talk a lot and I talk to a lot of people about like, how do we craft this life that we love now on the path to financial independence and beyond. not waiting till that point, but you made some pretty significant changes and you made some choices that allow you to, move fully into that autonomy, that time freedom. I'm feeling that someday, I'm gonna get there. And I think what it is for me, it's like I'm building that life now, but it feels like I'm just adding things, cause the core of my life is, a huge part of my life right now is working full-time. And it pays very well. and I have a lot of freedom and balance and all of that, I can do these other things that bring more purpose, but I'm still in the, someday I will be just doing the things that I'm passionate about and have more space and time to just be. Yeah. And so it feels very full and it feels. I'm tired all the time and I'm just like, I'm this treadmill trying to get through the day. And that could be young kids, but I don't know. I'm saying a lot of things and would love to hear your thoughts on, cuz I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation.

I

do have a few thoughts about that and I think like my first. Because I know that you coach, because of our conversation we had before we hit record, would just be like the coaching question that I would pose that you led to, which was like, I feel like I'm just adding and adding. And so I think there's a answer in there about the converse of that, what can you take away that might give you more space to. work on the life you want today. The other thing, I don't wanna be dismissive or glib or anything like that about it, but what I know about our life and where we were before I walked away from my job was that we were choosing our life every day. We had that power and control, and I know not everyone does, but we just weren't conscious of the daily choices we were making and how much control we actually had. We were afraid that if I left my job, maybe we wouldn't have as much money as we wanted or needed, which wasn't really realistic when, like in retrospect or we were afraid if I left my job, I wouldn't have the retirement that we were hoping for someday when I was older. And actually walking away from my work, put those things in perspective for us and helped us realize that we could create that income in other ways. That took less time and energy and we had more control than we thought, we just decided to take control of our choices and, begin creating our own income that was in line with our values. we had a lot of income, but maybe we were spending it. Unconsciously wasn't really in line with our values because we were busy or tired, or we weren't aware or all of those things. those are my first thoughts. And the last one is just like, how do you begin building the life you want today? It's just like one tiny step at a time, just like us. We still lose sight of that, and we still have that someday Script go through our mind every once in a while. But this is so much of what you talk about, Adam, just bringing a mindfulness to that, just becoming aware of that script and then making a conscious choice that replaces it and not expecting yourself to get from where you are now to where you wanna be in one step tomorrow. We just all take one conscious step at a time, one day at a time, and eventually, we look around and we're just amazed by what. Has become of our life that we never could have maybe even envisioned from the

start. I don't really have a whole lot to add other than we live in a society where it's just baked in to want the thing and get the thing. Right away. And what I've found at this point in my life is all of the beautiful things are built one tiny, step at a time. And who knows, Colin getting, another seven minutes of sleep in March and then another 10 minutes of sleep in April. Those will all be those slow little progressions that will allow maybe some of that additional space. Because there is a chapter in life where, yeah, we probably wouldn't have been able to do a lot of things we did if we had extremely young kids or if Debbie's illness was even worse. Or if we didn't live in a small town with friends and family that could help out in certain ways by watching our kids and all that kind of stuff. The race to get there, is something that I've dealt with a lot of my life. I'm always trying to find the most efficient, the fastest, and getting the most, if someone is good, then more, it must be better. And I'm dealing with that, element in this chapter of life. one of the realizations is, just the slower, methodical daily actions, are the thing that net the huge results, further down the road with Debbie's health. it did make us run at a different pace than we would if we would've just naturally come to it because, we had a good friend that inspired us to, to live this new life. But, so be it. we raced a little hard in the beginning to acquire some rentals fast. but then, I can just recognize now that even if we didn't have to go at that pace or didn't feel like we had to go at that pace, it still would've resulted well, if we would've gone a little slower.

lot of great advice there. Thank you both. I really resonated with what you both touched on, but you brought up Deb, that this desire to get from here to there right away, it feels if only I could get there, then it would be, everything would be great. But the reality could be overwhelming too, like just that idea of thinking that it's even possible to go from here to there with one step or whatever. It's not possible. possible So little steps. And I think ultimately it starts with having a clear vision of what you want your life to look like and backing into like how can I start to bring that into my life now? And also to your point, Deb, what can I start to remove? Are there things I can remove? Are there habits that I can build that support? the way I wanna feel, things like that. but this is not about me. This is about you

about all of us

And I notice also this about myself and most of the people that we talk to So for me it was, if I leave my job, then I will be healthy and all of these problems will go away. That was the first one. And so just, that's a really important script to notice and be very careful with because most often what I've learned the then isn't what we think it's going to be. We get the thing or the achievement, or this many downloads on our podcast, or we reach financial independence and then we think we're going to feel a certain way. But we've actually been. reaching for something outside of ourselves instead of the backward question, I think, which is, how do I wanna feel? Okay then what's one thing I could do right now today that would help me feel that way that I wanna feel? Cuz I think that's what we're reaching for, whatever the feeling is. And a lot of times we get the thing and it doesn't make us feel how we thought it was going to make us feel.

that's a great point, it's really not out there. it's within us, we need to remember that because anyone who's ever thought about that, if only I get there, If only I get that promotion, then you get that promotion and you're oh, that was great for about 10 seconds. Now I have more work. it's a great point. let's get back to your story. you have this time freedom. You have this. rental real estate business that provides income for you to cover your living expenses, allowing you to have more time to focus on what matters to you. Tell me about what that is. what fills the time and what are you excited

about right now? presently, it looks a lot different than it did in those early days of early retirement. So in the early days of early retirement, it was the first several months of like euphoria where it's like, it's Wednesday and it's like, I wanna go to the movies at two o'clock with the, all the 60 year olds. And it's like, let's go do it. Okay, cool.

So you just, and then you realize it's

actually Friday Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I mean, just the, this state of, of like, wow, this is so crazy. Like, I don't have to send an email. I don't even have to look at email. I don't even have to, you know, have an alarm clock and all of that. And so you go through those pieces. But then again, to back to what we were just saying, it, it was a story that I had either created or let creep into my mind that once I get to financial independence, there will be no other problems. I will have time, I will have freedom. I'll be surrounded by the people I love. Like how could there ever be a problem? And then, that seems silly to say now, but there will probably be a listener out there right now that's man, as soon as I hit phi, or as soon as I hit, as soon as I get this debt paid off, then, and those are all great, beautiful milestones and those little whispers that talk to you about, like wanting that peace and freedom that financial independence can give you. Those whispers are taking you somewhere on this external journey. But they're also, they're also pointing towards something internal. on that journey when we hit that milestone of financial independence, early on it was bliss. And then when the little days that weren't blissful started to creep in or these other things snuck in, what do I do now? what do I chase now? because there's still something missing. And so again, we hit that milestone. it got us to a great place in our lives. but it wasn't the answer. And so then that did start to force me to look inside. And so then I did get, to a point where I started using mindfulness. I started using long walks. I started using, finding other teachers and mentors to help me sharpen that toolbox for solving the dilemma of or understanding this thing called Chris Emek instead of just a, the toolbox that I'd built, which was how to make money or how to do these types of tasks efficiently and all of that. And so, that enabled me specifically To come to terms with, it's not out there. This thing isn't to be solved by getting this thing, it is to be solved by continuing that inward, reflection and introspection and all of that. So that's the woo answer, but I'll try to get to the new answer, which is Deb and I, the whispers started turning into, I wanna do something with Deb. I want to create something with Deb. I want to serve people that aren't in my immediate family. and so that looked like us starting a podcast that looked like. some ideas and dreams I had of going out into nature and putting together, bringing other people together in nature and combining the values that I eventually learned that I can now label as connection, adventure, growth. Like those are the three core values of me. Like those are my d n a and those are what we talk about a lot at go buck yourself. And so I was just, I'm in this place now, 2023 of just being lit up with life because I'm unraveling a little bit more of that thread and that story. I'm excited to do more to help other folks, to inspire other folks and to, like I said, unite that trinity of connection and adventure growth and all of that. I'll let Debbie go next.

When I left my job, it wasn't clear at first, but what's clear now is I was just going to keep recreating that, situation in my life until I was aware of the situation and what got me there. I left a job that had me feeling stressed and busy and overworked and tired, and I started doing a lot of things that also left me feeling stressed, overworked, busy, and tired. I didn't know how to say no. I had coping mechanisms of like people pleasing and perfecting, and so I just kept pulling this back into my life, even though I had left my job. And so I agree with Chris that it wasn't the answer, but it was a piece of the answer because it gave. A bit of awareness and time and energy to work toward that until now, where I am today is still working on creating that space in my life. And I go to adventure because I think it really helps me get present in the moment, in that playful energy where I can let go of, the things that might be, holding me back and I can get really in tune with myself, which was a big part of me just learning my own personal truth myself, tapping into my intuition and allowing the trust to be there to see where it takes me. Since leaving my job, I've learned that I like to surf. I wrote a book and self-published the book. we've started this podcast and I still work daily to have a routine where I have the time to just get really centered in myself, be present, and leave space on my calendar, which helps me feel freer and more present as well.

Very good. Thank you for sharing that. I love that so much. Because the big element that came through on both of your stories is self-awareness, And I think that is, Really the most important thing that we can do is get to know ourselves as deeply as possible. and it sounds having more time led you both to realize that wasn't the answer in itself, but that you needed to, and you started to learn a little bit more about yourself, and that led you to find the things that are fulfilling for you. And so one thing that came up in both of your stories is adventure. So I'd love to, and I know that the podcast talks a lot about adventure. Tell me more, I want to hear all about adventure. So what does that mean to you? How do you design your life around it

I think adventure. Is just another way of tapping into your own awareness because it it sets the playing field back to like, when we were kids, when we would hop on a bike and go explore, at least I did when I was a kid. I'd hop on a bike on a Saturday and me and friends would just get together and we'd go explore and find out. We'd get into trouble from time to time and we'd get hurt from time to time, but we just, we didn't have this feeling of what does the world need me to be? we didn't have these external expectations. We just were able to be fun and young and free, and so I think. As we grow into adults here in Western society and have successful, I throw that in quotes, jobs, we stop paying attention to that voice. We start paying attention to how do I climb the next rung on the ladder? How do I make the next dollar? All of those types of things replace that voice of wouldn't it be fun to paint again? Wouldn't it be fun to learn how to play guitar? Wouldn't it be fun to take a hip hop class? those are the types of questions that we've let go of, that I think we are doing ourselves a big disservice in when we choose to do that. And for me, adventure looks like climbing mountains. in a couple days I'm gonna go ice climbing with some friends and it's just a beautiful aesthetic, that makes me use my body in weird different ways. And we can be silly and young again cuz there's no reason I need to climb to the type of this sheet of ice. there's no like practical reason. It's not gonna bring me, like a new, set of dollars. It's not gonna, get me featured in anything like that. It's just it's just fun to go out there and play around. It's holy shit, look at this wall of ice. Do you think I can make it to the top? I'm gonna try, and we have the tools in geared to where we do it safely. But anyways, it's just that kind of stuff. Or going for long walks. every year I go for a long walk. a couple years ago I walked from Mexico to Utah through the state of Arizona. and again, it's just, and you meet the people on the trail doing the same thing they're like, man, my life did not give me permission to do this. I had to rearrange a lot of stuff to have this kind of time, or to give myself permission to go on a walk, And it's just wow. I just, I see it now and I question the shit out of it, but I didn't see it then 20 years ago, 15 years ago, I would've thought someone that left a decent job to go for a walk is just batshit crazy. Like, why would you do that? But now I just realize that it's that adventure, that play, that lightness of life that allows room for. other voices to come through, other than the voice of am I doing enough? am I enough? is my dad gonna be proud of me? is someone gonna think I'm really cool because of my job? And all of that kind of stuff. So you are able to disconnect from those ego voices that are trying to always compare you to other people

to be clear, you mean real long walks, not long walk, like around the block. We're talking like through Arizona

to Utah. Yeah, that one was about 800 miles last year. I did the Pacific Crest Trail from, the Mexico border to this mountain town in California is about 500 and some miles. So I love those long walks. and they are so helpful to me. And I thought when I left my job and our, both of our daughters were homeschooled at the time, I thought the four of us were gonna be a long walking family. But then I just, I noticed, through my wife and my daughters, bringing that up to me that's not their story. That's not. Thing that lights them up. So it's I could force them or I could try to manipulate them into going on these long walks with me, but I found out that no long walks is my thing and I enjoy going solo and all of that. And so Debbie has done some work to discover what those things are that mean adventure to her they are different than mine. And

to be clear, If we are defining adventure, a short walk could also be an adventure. It just depends on who you are. We just talked with my good friend Carrie, who does micro adventures and some of the things she brought up were just really cool. Like just doing some painting old cardboard that you have around for recycling and splattering some paint on it can be an adventure she had a friend, they made this special Indian meal, laid it out on the floor, sat on pillows on the floor, and aid in silence for the whole meal with their hands, this experience. That was an adventure or they did In the middle of the night, she and a friend went out on this frozen stream and played broom ball, which I've never played, but I think adventure means something different to everyone. But there is this element of just getting outside your normal box or your comfort zone a little bit, so that you can get out of that noise of your head and tap more deeply into your true self, your true voice, And so we don't always mean like this raw, like manly like adventure type of thing, but more of just what can get you present in the moment, feeling grateful for your life or where you're at, and also let that quiet voice of your intuition speak to you. that's how I feel about it. I love that

broader definition of adventure, right? Not just like the huge things, the dangerous things or the far away from home things, but that idea of micro adventurous is awesome. adventure's important to me as well and I want to have more adventure and it's just honestly, one thing that I've realized recently, I had a, what I call a friends retreat. Basically a bunch of people that work, some worked, some left voluntarily, some left because they got laid off, but a bunch of people that were in the mindfulness space at Google, we've had these since the pandemic, we've probably done two, three or four of them where we just get together and we do a virtual retreat and it's fantastic. I absolutely love it, and it's always An epiphany moment for me. And this time I just felt this overwhelming, realization that we've been living with a lot of fear. when I was sharing back, why have been living with so much fear and like the pandemic, My wife was pregnant, we have a little baby, and you didn't, we didn't know. And, but we've been super careful and afraid of getting covid and that's not how I wanna be showing up. That's not what I wanna be modeling to my son. And with him, I feel, and I would love your thoughts on this, having raised, now a 17 year old and a 12 year old, you're farther in the journey than I am. But I feel I'm constantly telling him, don't do that. Stop.

don't

do that. Be quiet. and I don't wanna do that. But I keep doing it. And I don't want him to get hurt too bad.

I don't want him to get hurt at all.

any advice on how to bring this sense of adventure into the family life and the parenting and creating space for risk taking?

first I just wanna say I'm really glad you brought up this idea of fear, because that's a feeling, And it reminds me that. When we go to some kind of adventure or step outside our comfort zone, what it really allows us to do is feel in the moment how we are really wanting to be feeling. When we say I wanna reach fi because, then I'll feel free or whatever. even if, Carrie in that episode, this was a good reminder, just adventuring for adventure's sake, where all you might be getting from it is pleasure or joy or a feeling of freedom you're feeling in that moment. This way you're wanting to feel how you're working in your life to build it toward this feeling, and you're just allowing yourself to feel joy or pleasure or free in that moment. I think that's a good point of adventure, you have to be like busy in this moment, so you naturally might have less fear around things that you think might be fearful and then. Bringing up your children. It's that's our deep work now in life after leaving our jobs, is to, as we've said so many times in this podcast, but become aware and deal with it so we aren't unconsciously passing it on to our kids, which we still have in the past. We still will in the future. you only know what you know. And we're doing the best we can do. But, I feel that's my life's work now is just to become aware of my own crap and not pass it on to my kids. And being afraid that your kids are going to get hurt is a natural part of parenting, I think. And it's also good to be aware of what we say out loud and what we might unconsciously be giving them because of that. And because I was a teacher for so many years, I had some professional development. a lot around kids and behavior, and one thing that was really super helpful to me was knowing that while our kids are with us is a good time to let them make the small mistakes that they'll learn from so that later when they're not with us, they don't make as many of those big mistakes. So maybe they fall down and hurt their knee or their elbow, they skin it, but they learn that when, they balance like that on a certain piece of equipment at the park, that's going to happen and it might actually save a bigger mistake in the future. So that's a super simple example, but it's like when they're with us, they have the freedom to make the small mistakes with money or with their body or those things that teach them a lot, that they know a lot more than from making those mistakes or getting hurt in those small ways by the time they're adults.

Yeah. I grew up in a rural area with a bunch of farmers and ranchers, so I just naturally came from a life that was more, riddled with injuries and whoa, you let your five year old drive a truck? that kind of stuff. I have a bias and that's just part of how I was raised. But that's the one thing that I feel like I'm able to, when I go out on these hikes and I'm working, not working when I'm out on these hikes and I'm talking to other people that maybe lived more of a city life or their parents were maybe similar to you, Adam, where you had a little more fear about, oh, what happens if they get hurt? that could be a bad thing and all of that. And, and created a lot of these environments of safety. That they're just now starting to explore, like what does it look like to take a risk? What does it look like to get a bump and a bruise? What does it look like to stretch that comfort zone? And again, I think it's a beautiful balance. Like it would suck if both of us parents, me and Deb were exactly like me because our kids would've broken a lot more bones. They probably would've had a lot bigger problems. So it's nice that we can balance each other out. She is looking at things through more of the lens of how can I ensure my kids don't grow up too fast, and how can I ensure my kids don't, meet a bad fate, or an injury or something like that. Whereas I'm looking at the lens of life of like, how can I empower the hell out of these girls? And in many ways I've stretched them way too far. When they were younger, I pushed them into all sorts of things that I thought that if I force them to do this, they're gonna be really strong women someday they're gonna love the outdoors someday, and I'm gonna have this great connection. But what I was really doing is taking my love for, being. Different and being a little rebellious and loving the outdoors, and I was trying to force them on that. So that was the growth. I had to look inside and say am I really doing this for their benefit or is this just attachment? I've attached myself to my girls and I want them to do that. one last thing and then I'll be quiet again, my fear, I never probably named it in that moment cause I didn't have a whole lot of consciousness and awareness and techniques that I do today. But when Deb and I were first married, she had a 15 minute commute. and I would make her call me like every couple minutes on that commute cuz I was so worried that on this drive something was gonna happen to her. And in my mind I thought I was rational that this is normal. if I'm talking to her, then I know nothing bad will happen to her. Even though you see the silliness, she's just, she's more prone to probably have a wreck because she's gotta worry about calling her neurotic husband, every few minutes. But there was a part of me that either was worried about losing her, that was worried about something deep inside that wasn't even that rational. it was baked a little bit in rationality of I love this person. I don't want anything bad to happen to him. But until I start to explore, why do I have to feel like she's a hundred percent safe a hundred percent of the time? because I can't control that. What can I control? I can control, my ability to reflect inward and wonder why I'm so scared or worried about this.

That's some great points. And I think one thing that you've brought up in there and you brought up earlier was letting people have their own passions and their own definition of adventure I relate a lot with wanting to, get my son to meditate, hit or miss, I'd say. mostly Miss but, and as you were talking about that, I was thinking a lot about my wife, I'm trying to get her to wanna retire early, and she's I'm good. this is fine. I'm wondering are there any questions or conversations that you'd recommend or, conversation starters around like helping connect in that way? what are you passionate about? what are your dreams or anything like that to l to start to

uncover. Yeah, some of the practical things that I really like. I'm a work sheety type of guy, so I love the idea of if Deb and I are gonna go out on a date, we spend some time eating and chatting and keeping it light. But we also take some time to say some things, like, what's your ideal? Week or your ideal day, week and year look like. And so that just gives, some light playfulness to Yeah. What does an ideal day, oh, I get up at nine o'clock and then I have coffee, and then I go for a run and all of that. And again, there's no real expectation of there's a right answer or wrong answer. It's hopefully just allowing you to tap into yourself to say this is what my ideal day looks like. This is what my ideal week looks like. This is what my ideal year looks like. And then you can examine that and you can start to make decisions moving forward. you can, as her husband, you can look at her list and say okay, maybe she needs support in, it seems like this is really important to her. How can I support her in order to her have more time on her schedule to do A, B and C and then vice versa, she can then hear you, share that. Yeah, I just need to, I need to connect with my friends, my, my mindfulness guys from Google. I need to connect with them and we want to go on a ski trip or we want to do that kind of thing. and then I think just being able To give yourself permission to ask those questions and then both hold it lightly, but take it seriously. look, there's a reason you wrote down, you want to go on a ski trip. do that. Try to do the thing that, that you wrote down. What is a hell yes to you and what's a hell no? And try to incorporate more of those hell yeses into your life and hell nos. So it can be as simple as just taking a sheet of paper and writing hell yes, hell no at the top of the paper. And then making a fun game where it's yeah, you have Indian food and maybe a good wine, and you each, take five minutes to write those down and then share with each other. Yeah,

I would only just add that when I first started even asking myself that question, what's important to me or what do I wanna explore separate from Chris? That's just like individual to me. I didn't really have a lot of answers, so that was an answer in and of itself, When I had to come up with an ideal day or month or year, it was like, I don't know. And I realized from that, those coping mechanisms of like people pleasing, I designed myself around showing up in a way I thought other people needed or wanted me to be. And so it took a long time to tap into my own individuality. And a really big part of that was just allowing myself to be curious and then not letting myself get caught up in this that wasn't the right answer. So that was a mistake. even things that don't pan out are just guiding you in another direction. So they're all just ways to, coordinate your steps and take the next steps. So for instance, last year I thought like I was going to learn how to do a handstand, and that was my thing. So I got this course that was fairly cheap, and by the end of the year I was going to learn how to do a handstand. The course I picked wasn't really that good, and then I. I wasn't really strong enough to do a handstand yet. I needed to work on something else, I was curious about doing a handstand, and I didn't do it. I failed. But it was just like a recalibration of what my body needed and what I needed. So that's just a light, playful way to go about it. sometimes curiosities are about, the next book you should read, maybe a course you should take, maybe a mastermind you should join, those kinds of things. But just holding it really loosely and from this perspective of curiosity, if you're having trouble with your own individuality, and I think it helps in our relationship that we do compromise. Do things with each other that might be more important to the other in our relationship than to ourselves. But we also give each other space for time alone to get clarity about ourselves and to do our own individual things. Like both of those things I feel are important and maybe as a couple, it's helpful to give each other permission to do both. I love to hike, but if I'm gonna pick surfing over hiking or the beach, I'm probably gonna be like, yeah, I wanna go to Costa Rica. But I do love both of those things. yeah. Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Thank you. That's, so much interesting stuff there. And how you started out talking about, you weren't really sure what those things were. but being curious and not letting just the drain of every day and especially the five to 7:00 PM period when the kids are losing their minds and I'm losing my mind. the need to be curious with her and about what she's interested in, and then creating the space for her to go and do those things, whatever it might be.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, I mean, your story, Adam, I hear often, from a lot of people, whether that's the story of, it's easy for me to, but it's hard for my wife. but I've also met a lot of guys in, my front row dad's group that I'm part of that. are not able to tap into their own answers. Like they don't know what that looks like. Deb and I did a workshop oh, three or so years ago, and that's what, part of the workshop was answering that question, what's your ideal day, week, and year? And there were a lot of people that could not answer those questions or there they thought it was really tough for a person like me that's very easy to know, I love these things, so I'm gonna write those things down on, on that piece of paper. And when we were first, or when we were getting very close to pulling the trigger on leaving employment, one thing, like we'd come to Thanksgiving and, I'd start to, tease these things out with family members. my mom, my, my dad, my aunts, uncles, things like. and I was like, yeah, I'm excited about this, and this. And so many times I'm like, oh, I can't leave my work. I don't know what I'd do. I can't leave my work. I don't, I dunno what I'd do. And to me that's the same thing like Debbie's saying, I don't know what my ideal day looks like. You haven't given yourself permission to think about you in that way. So you either have been people pleasing or you've been so accustomed to not worrying about what you need and want because you're busy taking care of the kids, your husband, your wife, your parents, whatever that happens to be, you've stopped listening to that voice. and the metaphor of you cannot be the best version of yourself if your cup is drained. absolutely rings true. I know, that it's easy for me to find the ways to fill up my. but even for me, who can do that fairly easy. if my cup isn't full, I'm just a, I'm just a poor version of myself. I'm not bringing my light to the world that, that I think I was put here to bring. so I think it's sometimes we don't give ourselves that permission or we're easy to dismiss that. It's not important to know what we want and who we are and to fill our cups full. but I argue the complete opposite is the most important thing there is to life. Yeah. And

you made a good point, Adam, about just creating the space for it. So from a practical standpoint, if I don't put that alone time on my calendar, if I don't block it off, I don't do it. And I feel guilty about it, I probably feel a little guilty about it either way. If I put it on my calendar, it's it's on my calendar and it's as simple as, and free as going to, the library and just taking some time there to myself in a quiet space or closing the bedroom door and lighting a candle and turning on like a, like low background music and using that time to journal and read a book. Just having that space allows whatever curiosity might be there to come up, whatever intuition you do have that you can trust in and build and grow upon.

All right, Deb. Chris, let's shift gears now into what I call the mindful Fire Final four. Are

you ready? Absolutely.

So the first question is all about envisioning. I talk a lot about envisioning on the podcast. We've talked about it here today. And so the first question is, tell me about something that you're currently envisioning. Maybe you first thought about it a while ago. but yeah, something that you are envisioning in your life and you'd like to see happen.

I think I'm just beginning to envision an adventure retreat with Go bucket yourself that involves Costa Rica and surfing, maybe repelling in some way. So that's just something in the past few days that has been coming up, which I think is similar to something you're envisioning, Chris.

Yeah, some of the envisioning is actually taking shape. So it's still, I'm envisioning the future of exactly how it's gonna look when it comes to fruition, but I've put several of the balls in place to where we will be doing, several events this year. Whether it's go buck yourself in conjunction with other folks, other brands. and yeah, it's, it just feels. it feels amazing. it feels like it's just another one of those whispers where I'm seeing the next breadcrumb in front of me of yes, this is the path I was meant to be walking right now. And so yeah, having some events, coming up, in 2023 really light me up. And again, I think I said this earlier, sometimes this is my downfall as I envision way too far out in the future where it's okay, just take care of the first three. Chris, before you get too excited about four, five, and six. Yeah, three

is a lot. Three. Three. Certainly three's certainly a lot to start with, even one. But, yeah. Chris, I'd love for you to share with the audience a little bit about what those events are.

Yeah, so we're doing a meetup in, in the Grand Canyon at the end of April 29th through May 2nd. It's just a loose, hopefully easy way for people to say, yes, I'm in. or No, that's not for me. But the whole concept, for that one is come and go over those four days. I'll be there the whole four days. it's on your own. It'll be camping. I got a group spot on the south Rim of the Grand Canyon. And so I'll take some opportunity to share some of the outdoor skilly things that I know and I take for granted that I know other people are wanting to learn. And, so we'll be doing that. And then there's this concept. It's this, it's, the word is miso, but talking about comfort zone, it's basically doing something really challenging for yourself, a time or two per year, to help build your resilience, to build your self confidence and all of that. And so I've envisioned, some cool ways to use the backdrop of the Grand Canyon for people to, to tap into, like what is a good challenge that I want to try and do while I'm out here, whether that's a physical challenge of going into the canyon and all of that kind of stuff, or something else. and then we're partnering with Camp Five. In July, it's campfire, Rocky Mountain, week one here in Colorado. And, go, Bucky yourself will be doing an adventure add-on piece, to the end of that. So Steven Boyer over there was gracious enough to hear my envisioned future of Hey, let's take the cool part of campfire and let's add on, some adventure, Colorado nature, that a lot of people probably would love to take, take advantage of while they made the trip out here for Camp five. And so we're doing that in July. And then I have another one, in the works, that's later on in the year for another group. And so just really excited to take the things that I love and hopefully share those with other people so that whether they fall in love with it, or at least just it answers another question of where they want to go in their life. that sounds exciting to me.

Very cool. Yeah, those things sound really exciting and yeah, I love how you're pairing it with the campfire. That's something that's already gonna be happening, just giving people an option to get out of their comfort zone. Go on an adventure. as as after we met and I was on your podcast, I thought I would love to do some version of a little bit longer hiking or like this idea of backpacking through the mountains. I would love to do that, but I would literally die. so the idea that you are creating an opportunity for people like me who like are interested in it, but you know what you're doing and could teach me and others how to do it. that's really cool. So I think you're onto something with that.

Thank you.

Yeah. That's nice to hear. Thanks Adam. Yeah. come to them. Let's do it together.

That

would be great. Let's see if we can make it happen. there's that, how is that gonna happen? Mindset coming up. So the second question is, what piece of advice would you give to someone early on their path to financial

independence? it might seem trite and cliche, but it's just start small. my friend Kasam shares this idea of get in the corridor and what he means by that or get on the field is like, there's only so much you can do from the sidelines. There's only so many podcasts. You can listen to so many books. You can read so many LLCs and logos you can create for your someday business. But until you actually, put your first dollar to work, it's all just. it's all just fluff. so you've gotta take action. You have to get on the field to get in the corridor. And so I would just suggest that whether you're thinking about real estate, whether you want to pay down debt, whether you want to, contribute more to your 401k, just put something on the calendar. It could be as tiny as I'm gonna create, or I'm gonna invest a dollar next week. That's fine. A dollar. Then maybe it turns into two. Maybe it turns into more than that. But just start with the dollar. You're gonna learn lessons, the next step's gonna reveal itself. So just start small and just start today. Yeah,

I think that, I would say, I would go back to something I brought up earlier, which was, how do you wanna feel and what small step can you take today already that will allow you to feel the way that you wanna feel? And maybe that has to do with financial independence. Maybe it doesn't, specifically toward financial independence. It's about what do you value? And the sooner you can get clear about what you really value, the sooner you can put the money that you do have toward those things that you really value. Sometimes I think we're seeking financial independence and that might not be the thing we actually want. but It's never bad to have some financial freedom, unless you're like over controlling and really harming yourself by over controlling that. But yeah, how do you wanna feel? What can you do now to feel the way that you wanna feel and what do you really value? I would try to get clear about those two questions.

Yeah, that's great. Those, both of those things are really helpful. And yeah, I realize, like I'm thinking, how do I want to feel? One thing that always comes up to me is unrushed and Yes. I could easily do that. Like I, I end up rushing every morning, even though my son wakes me up at five 30 in the morning. and he doesn't have to be school till eight. How am I rushing, Let's just start

earlier.

maybe that will work, maybe it won't, but we'll see.

I can empathize with that, but I will tell you that you have been completely unrushed in this whole conversation with us, so there you go. I haven't felt rushed at all this time.

Agreed.

I'm glad to hear that so the third question is, what piece of advice would you give to someone getting started with meditation and or mindfulness?

the biggest thing for me when I was getting started was I used the guided meditation app and the breakthrough came when I could gently. Come back to the breath. if that's what I was focusing on, the breath or if you're listening to, using other senses. But anyways, I use the breath often, but I would get so frustrated. I would be like, why am I thinking things and why is my mind racing? Or why am I worried about what's gonna happen in an hour? I should be better at this. And then, so I used to just er grip my way back to trying to find the breath. And then I started just gently, kindly like you would with, a three year old That made a little mistake. It's oh, I see you made that mistake. let's gently come back to the breath. that was just, like I said, a big breakthrough from me or for me, in order to find success. that's weird using success with my phone. It's anyways. Find, find a better way to approach that.

I would just say start small and keep showing up. So when I first started practicing, it was just to check a box. That was it. And I could only do it for four minutes. That's how I felt. And so it didn't feel like I was really doing enough and I didn't even understand why I was doing it, but I did keep showing up and eventually something clicked where I was like, this is why I am doing this. So just start small. It's okay. Just one minute, two minutes. I did four minutes and eventually, I found it to be very helpful.

great advice. And the final question is, how can people connect with you online? Learn more about the Go Bucket Yourself podcast. Where can people find you and connect with you on the internet?

Yeah, so you can search us in Apple Podcast. Spotify, all your players. Just search Go bucket yourself. You will find it. our website is go buck yourself.com. There's not a lot going on the website currently. but if you go to go buck yourself.com/apple or slash Spotify, those are immediate, redirects to our podcast on those platforms. that's the best way. and that's the way that, that we share, find me on Instagram at Bucket Yourself. I love to, to interact, answer questions about real estate, financial independence, just all the. Areas of growth that are exciting to me. I love to connect with people that are experiencing real world, like right now type of stuff. Not some ethereal, like someday it might be nice too. So yeah, reach out and, I'd love to connect.

Same. You can find me on instagram@imperfectprogress.me. Love to connect with anyone that wants to reach out to me there.

All right, fantastic. Yeah. I remember the first time I came across your handle, I was like, that's it, that's what I'm going for. because I'm, a closet perfectionist. I don't think of myself as a perfectionist, but I very much am. And so I'm all about imperfect action. Just moving forward and really all of this podcast, all of this, whatever I got going on the side is all due to what I call haphazard action taking. So I remember seeing that and I was like, Yes, that's it. That's what I'm going for. So

that's,

oh, that's cool to hear. Cuz I always think about do I need to change that? But that's nice. Yeah. I'm glad we connected there.

Yeah, me too. thank you both for being here. It's an absolute pleasure. And,

Thanks so much, Adam. Enjoyed being here.

Yeah, thank you very much. It was definitely our pleasure.

Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the Mindful Fire Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, I invite you to hit subscribe wherever you're listening to this. This just lets the platforms know you're getting value from the episodes and you want to be here. When I release additional content, I. If you're ready to start your Mindful Fire journey, go to mindful fire.org/start and download my free envisioning guide in just 10 minutes. This guide will help you craft a clear and inspiring vision for your life. Again, you can download it for free@mindfulfire.org slash start. Thanks again and I'll catch you next time on the Mindful Fire Podcast.